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I am indian (part of the society that benefits the most from Modi's economics and politics) but I just made this account (also another exhibit of how far-right

I am indian (part of the society that benefits the most from Modi's economics and politics) but I just made this account (also another exhibit of how far-right my government is) to say that I read the conversation and I really think you gotta dig deeper into the social fabric of the indian culture to realise how far-right the organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh) behind the government (from which Modi comes) is. They have an entirely different image of the Indian subcontinent (based on this guy's vision of "Hindutva" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinayak_Damodar_Savarkar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinayak_Damodar_Savarkar). This image roughly includes three parts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva:_Who_is_a_Hindu%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva:_Who_is_a_Hindu%3F): 1. Religion 2. Culture (Caste etc) 3. National Identity Now the problem is that the government might actually not be really into building the one nation, one religion Indian subcontinent presented in the vision (yes that includes Myanmar, Pakistan, Afghanistan) but the millions of kids being trained by the RSS since forever in thousands of schools kinda do want that. The problem with Modi is not that he's a nazi or not. The problem is with a sizeable population in India who support him because they think he's their guy and will do to Muslims and other lower caste people what the Nazis did to others. Hitler is considered a strong military leader amongst that population. The last part is of course anecdotal (the sample size was around 50 people through out my life spread over different socio-economic-geographic factors. TL;DR This is going to be a problem in the long term for the world

screye 5y ago
It's funny you say this. The people who criticize Modi are currently at the top of every english-speaking institution I know off. If anything, criticizing Modi is the easiest way to make you way up the ranks of any English-speaking institution in India. Also, please refrain from using Wikipedia on politically fraught matters. It is the biggest echo chamber of them all, in such areas. I actually had the inverse journey. I grew up in housing the exact same "RSS are Nazis", "Savarkar wanted Aryan supremacy" opinions that get thrown around in my circles. It actually took a LOT of digging before I even started to wrap my head around the level of institutional propaganda against these persona non gratas of the Indian establishment. I still dislike RSS, but my opinion of everyone in the Gandhi/Nehru families has plummeted. (Indira was surprisingly candid, but went completely batshit during her emergency). It requires painful digging through of first sources though. Vikram Sampath's 2 books paint the most detailed image of Savarkar yet, warts and all. (https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=savarkar-vikram-sampath https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=savarkar-vikram-sampath). Also, you should listen to speeches given by the RSS head himself (first sources), especially their annual year review speech. It is surprisingly inclusive. It is quite tame for India's Nazis. Urban folks like us do not realize just how much work the RSS does in rural areas on India. It took going to university in a smaller town and meeting people from poorer communities to hear about how favorably RSS was viewed as a social-welfare NGO. > National Identity Now the problem is that the government might actually not be really into building the one nation, one religion Indian subcontinent presented in the vision (yes that includes Myanmar, Pakistan, Afghanistan) but the millions of kids being trained by the RSS since forever in thousands of schools kinda do want that Source ? If anything, Indian Convents and Madras > other lower caste people The BJP has been far more inclusive of the lower castes in their power structure than the Congress ever has. Modi himself is lower caste. A substantial portion of the lower castes are voting for Modi too. Your claims are not backed up by data. At the same time, the recent Pew research survey shows that Indians highly value diversity of religions and preservation of the diversity and freedoms to do so. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/29/key-findings-about-religion-in-india/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/29/key-finding.... Hell, more Muslims want India to be 1 mega-subcontinent-nation-state than Hindus. https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/06/PF_06.29.21_India-00-14.png https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/06/...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaypolit 5y ago
  Both your links pew research links have this actual content in it: 1. More muslims believe that the partition shouldn't have happened. That is completely different from what I said about Hindus. If anything, it proves Hindus wanting a hindu nation and Muslims feeling that the partition that divided the nations along religious lines shouldn't have happened. 2. The second pew link is full of multiple results showing: a. Hindus believe being "hindu" is an essential part of being Indian. b. Mulsims and other minorities feel insecure about being their own religious selves. Honestly, either your perception is fundamentally different from what the literal words in the links said that you're willing to misinterpret them to any length OR this was a very cleverly disguised attempt at formulating your argument using the anti-thesis of your argument as the links themselves. Secondly, I agree with you on the Nehru/Gandhi thing. (Another interesting moment is Indira Gandhi talking about population control as a cover in this british documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCI_KhfED2k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCI_KhfED2k) Last please read sarvakar's treatise "Hindutva (Who is Hindu?)" in which he equates being hindu has being indian in addition to the three parts I mentioned earlier. Now I am going to stop replying to you for my sanity. BTW, try not misquoting the links you give. It will lead people astray.

screye 5y ago

It's funny you say this. The people who criticize Modi are currently at the top of every english-speaking institution I know off. If anything, criticizing Modi is the easiest way to make you way up the ranks of any English-speaking institution in India. Also, please refrain from using Wikipedia on politically fraught matters. It is the biggest echo chamber of them all, in such areas. I actually had the inverse journey. I grew up in housing the exact same "RSS are Nazis", "Savarkar wanted Aryan supremacy" opinions that get thrown around in my circles. It actually took a LOT of digging before I even started to wrap my head around the level of institutional propaganda against these persona non gratas of the Indian establishment. I still dislike RSS, but my opinion of everyone in the Gandhi/Nehru families has plummeted. (Indira was surprisingly candid, but went completely batshit during her emergency). It requires painful digging through of first sources though. Vikram Sampath's 2 books paint the most detailed image of Savarkar yet, warts and all. (https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=savarkar-vikram-sampath https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=savarkar-vikram-sampath). Also, you should listen to speeches given by the RSS head himself (first sources), especially their annual year review speech. It is surprisingly inclusive. It is quite tame for India's Nazis. Urban folks like us do not realize just how much work the RSS does in rural areas on India. It took going to university in a smaller town and meeting people from poorer communities to hear about how favorably RSS was viewed as a social-welfare NGO. > National Identity Now the problem is that the government might actually not be really into building the one nation, one religion Indian subcontinent presented in the vision (yes that includes Myanmar, Pakistan, Afghanistan) but the millions of kids being trained by the RSS since forever in thousands of schools kinda do want that Source ? If anything, Indian Convents and Madras > other lower caste people The BJP has been far more inclusive of the lower castes in their power structure than the Congress ever has. Modi himself is lower caste. A substantial portion of the lower castes are voting for Modi too. Your claims are not backed up by data. At the same time, the recent Pew research survey shows that Indians highly value diversity of religions and preservation of the diversity and freedoms to do so. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/29/key-findings-about-religion-in-india/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/29/key-finding.... Hell, more Muslims want India to be 1 mega-subcontinent-nation-state than Hindus. https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/06/PF_06.29.21_India-00-14.png https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/06/...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwawaypolit 5y ago
Both your links pew research links have this actual content in it: 1. More muslims believe that the partition shouldn't have happened. That is completely different from what I said about Hindus. If anything, it proves Hindus wanting a hindu nation and Muslims feeling that the partition that divided the nations along religious lines shouldn't have happened. 2. The second pew link is full of multiple results showing: a. Hindus believe being "hindu" is an essential part of being Indian. b. Mulsims and other minorities feel insecure about being their own religious selves. Honestly, either your perception is fundamentally different from what the literal words in the links said that you're willing to misinterpret them to any length OR this was a very cleverly disguised attempt at formulating your argument using the anti-thesis of your argument as the links themselves. Secondly, I agree with you on the Nehru/Gandhi thing. (Another interesting moment is Indira Gandhi talking about population control as a cover in this british documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCI_KhfED2k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCI_KhfED2k) Last please read sarvakar's treatise "Hindutva (Who is Hindu?)" in which he equates being hindu has being indian in addition to the three parts I mentioned earlier. Now I am going to stop replying to you for my sanity. BTW, try not misquoting the links you give. It will lead people astray.