8 ms·

And then the question is, should you as a vaccinated healthy person mind getting infected in the sense that it can shield you maybe even more from future varian

And then the question is, should you as a vaccinated healthy person mind getting infected in the sense that it can shield you maybe even more from future variants or is this a dangerous game to play?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nightfly 5y ago
I think it's all about timing. Right now in Oregon our hospitals are full. So the less people getting infected right now the better.
- faeyanpiraat 5y ago
  If I remember correctly, the number of vaccinated people who get infected and require hospitalization is quite low.
  - retrac 5y ago
    The number of people possibly infected by a vaccinated person as an asymptomatic or mild symptomatic carrier and who may require hospitalization is still ambiguous. I will continue to err on the side of caution, tho I have little worry for myself personally.
  - exhilaration 5y ago
    You remember correctly: More than 99% of recent deaths were among the unvaccinated, infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said earlier this month on NBC's Meet the Press, while Walensky noted on Friday that unvaccinated people accounted for over 97% of hospitalizations. https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017002907/u-s-covid-deaths-are-rising-again-experts-call-it-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017002907/u-s-covid-deaths-a...
    - walterbell 5y ago
      As of April 2021, the CDC "unvaccinated" definition includes people who are thirteen days after their second vaccine, https://www.cms.gov/files/document/qso-20-38-nh.pdf https://www.cms.gov/files/document/qso-20-38-nh.pdf > Fully vaccinated” refers to a person who is ≥2 weeks following receipt of the second dose in a 2-dose series, or ≥2 weeks following receipt of one dose of a single-dose vaccine. “Unvaccinated” refers to a person who does not fit the definition of “fully vaccinated,” including people whose vaccination status is not known
    - angelzen 5y ago
      That is wild. The situation in UK is nowhere near '99% unvaccinated suffer terrible outcome'. On 20th August, Public Health England published a report that is quite a bit more balanced. From Table 5, pp 22-23, Delta cases: overnight inpatient admissions (inclusion#) all ages unknown 99 <21 days post dose 1 260 ≥21 days post dose 1 689 ≥14 days post dose 2 2,204 unvaccinated 4,033 <50 age group ... ≥14 days post dose 2 366 unvaccinated 3,044 deaths within 28 days of positive specimen date all ages unknown 16 <21 days post dose 1 14 ≥21 days post dose 1 5 ≥14 days post dose 2 679 unvaccinated 390 <50 age group ... ≥14 days post dose 2 27 unvaccinated 72 For all adults percent fully vaccinated is 75%, whereas for <50, percent one dose vaccinated is somewhere between 60-75% https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833
      - fy20 5y ago
        This may be explained by Simpson's Paradox. Something similar happened in Israel, if you look at the raw case numbers for the current wave, it looks like the vaccine only has a ~67% efficiency: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-... The UK and Israel both have very high vaccination rates of older people, and lower fully vaccinated rates of younger people. Someone who is 75 most likely has a much weaker immune system than someone who is 25, to the point where someone who is 75 and fully vaccinated may have a much harder time fighting the virus than someone who is 25 and unvaccinated. The data from Israel if broken down by under and over 50s, shows the vaccine efficiency is 92% for under 50s and 85% for over 50s. Israel mainly used Pfizer though, where as the UK mainly AstraZeneca, so there could also be differences there.
maxerickson 5y ago
It's probably still worth trying to reduce the amount of virus in circulation, even if individual risk is low. There's someone in another thread talking about being on immunosuppressants, for example. I don't think it's a binary condition either, we can do things that are more effective and less costly (like cutting down on large, indoor, adult social gatherings) and not do things that are less effective.
randomopining 5y ago
That's what I've been proposing for a few months. Get the vaccine and then get the delta variant a few weeks later to crush it and then be super immune for future variants that jet off of that one.
- faeyanpiraat 5y ago
  Do you have evidence that this is the best course of action?
  - contravariant 5y ago
    Well the obvious problems with it is that it's hard to tell you've been infected and you need to quarantine for the entire duration until you are sure you've been infected and have recovered. Apart from that, if the protection from a vaccine is temporary then there's no reason to believe your immune system will learn anything from an infection it can already handle. That part of the immune response takes a while and may never succeed if the virus is long gone before then.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      The whole point of my strategy would be that perhaps Delta is a precursor to a, let's say, Zeta variant that has almost complete evasion to the vaccine. Let's say in January or something. So what you're doing is giving your body a high chance to crush the Delta and gain some cross-immunity towards the future evasive variant. Whereas if you just relied on the vaccine, it might not even work well in January. Obviously this is just conjecture, but I think a real possibility.
    - arisAlexis 5y ago
      Who knows if you getbDelta while vaccinated and you crush it shortly afternentry if your immune system makes any changes or not.. this requires an immunologist to answer.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  The vaccine is highly effective at preventing severe disease requiring hospitalization, but nothing is 100% (after 6 months, Pfizer is 97% effective at preventing severe disease) -- I'm not going to deliberately expose myself to something that could put me in a hospital. And no point, really. If I'm going to force myself to have the disease to build up immunity, why not just wait until I'm accidentally exposed (which may not happen)?

And then the question is, should you as a vaccinated healthy person mind getting infected in the sense that it can shield you maybe even more from future variants or is this a dangerous game to play?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nightfly 5y ago

I think it's all about timing. Right now in Oregon our hospitals are full. So the less people getting infected right now the better.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago
If I remember correctly, the number of vaccinated people who get infected and require hospitalization is quite low.
- retrac 5y ago
  The number of people possibly infected by a vaccinated person as an asymptomatic or mild symptomatic carrier and who may require hospitalization is still ambiguous. I will continue to err on the side of caution, tho I have little worry for myself personally.
- exhilaration 5y ago
  You remember correctly: More than 99% of recent deaths were among the unvaccinated, infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said earlier this month on NBC's Meet the Press, while Walensky noted on Friday that unvaccinated people accounted for over 97% of hospitalizations. https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017002907/u-s-covid-deaths-are-rising-again-experts-call-it-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017002907/u-s-covid-deaths-a...
  - walterbell 5y ago
    As of April 2021, the CDC "unvaccinated" definition includes people who are thirteen days after their second vaccine, https://www.cms.gov/files/document/qso-20-38-nh.pdf https://www.cms.gov/files/document/qso-20-38-nh.pdf > Fully vaccinated” refers to a person who is ≥2 weeks following receipt of the second dose in a 2-dose series, or ≥2 weeks following receipt of one dose of a single-dose vaccine. “Unvaccinated” refers to a person who does not fit the definition of “fully vaccinated,” including people whose vaccination status is not known
  - angelzen 5y ago
    That is wild. The situation in UK is nowhere near '99% unvaccinated suffer terrible outcome'. On 20th August, Public Health England published a report that is quite a bit more balanced. From Table 5, pp 22-23, Delta cases: overnight inpatient admissions (inclusion#) all ages unknown 99 <21 days post dose 1 260 ≥21 days post dose 1 689 ≥14 days post dose 2 2,204 unvaccinated 4,033 <50 age group ... ≥14 days post dose 2 366 unvaccinated 3,044 deaths within 28 days of positive specimen date all ages unknown 16 <21 days post dose 1 14 ≥21 days post dose 1 5 ≥14 days post dose 2 679 unvaccinated 390 <50 age group ... ≥14 days post dose 2 27 unvaccinated 72 For all adults percent fully vaccinated is 75%, whereas for <50, percent one dose vaccinated is somewhere between 60-75% https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833
    - fy20 5y ago
      This may be explained by Simpson's Paradox. Something similar happened in Israel, if you look at the raw case numbers for the current wave, it looks like the vaccine only has a ~67% efficiency: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-... The UK and Israel both have very high vaccination rates of older people, and lower fully vaccinated rates of younger people. Someone who is 75 most likely has a much weaker immune system than someone who is 25, to the point where someone who is 75 and fully vaccinated may have a much harder time fighting the virus than someone who is 25 and unvaccinated. The data from Israel if broken down by under and over 50s, shows the vaccine efficiency is 92% for under 50s and 85% for over 50s. Israel mainly used Pfizer though, where as the UK mainly AstraZeneca, so there could also be differences there.

maxerickson 5y ago

It's probably still worth trying to reduce the amount of virus in circulation, even if individual risk is low. There's someone in another thread talking about being on immunosuppressants, for example. I don't think it's a binary condition either, we can do things that are more effective and less costly (like cutting down on large, indoor, adult social gatherings) and not do things that are less effective.

randomopining 5y ago

That's what I've been proposing for a few months. Get the vaccine and then get the delta variant a few weeks later to crush it and then be super immune for future variants that jet off of that one.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago
Do you have evidence that this is the best course of action?
- contravariant 5y ago
  Well the obvious problems with it is that it's hard to tell you've been infected and you need to quarantine for the entire duration until you are sure you've been infected and have recovered. Apart from that, if the protection from a vaccine is temporary then there's no reason to believe your immune system will learn anything from an infection it can already handle. That part of the immune response takes a while and may never succeed if the virus is long gone before then.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    The whole point of my strategy would be that perhaps Delta is a precursor to a, let's say, Zeta variant that has almost complete evasion to the vaccine. Let's say in January or something. So what you're doing is giving your body a high chance to crush the Delta and gain some cross-immunity towards the future evasive variant. Whereas if you just relied on the vaccine, it might not even work well in January. Obviously this is just conjecture, but I think a real possibility.
  - arisAlexis 5y ago
    Who knows if you getbDelta while vaccinated and you crush it shortly afternentry if your immune system makes any changes or not.. this requires an immunologist to answer.
Johnny555 5y ago
The vaccine is highly effective at preventing severe disease requiring hospitalization, but nothing is 100% (after 6 months, Pfizer is 97% effective at preventing severe disease) -- I'm not going to deliberately expose myself to something that could put me in a hospital. And no point, really. If I'm going to force myself to have the disease to build up immunity, why not just wait until I'm accidentally exposed (which may not happen)?