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Super curious about Librem 5 myself, though they're currently backordered and I'm a Linux newbie. If someone has one gathering dust, email is in my profile. My
by istingray 5y ago
Super curious about Librem 5 myself, though they're currently backordered and I'm a Linux newbie. If someone has one gathering dust, email is in my profile.
My first step to switching off Apple is my laptop. I bought a System76 laptop. I also considered the Purism laptop. I'm a Linux newbie and went with System76, some explanation below. (Shipping times were also a factor in my decision)
Purism's challenge is they may be trying to solve a "2-miracles problem".
Miracle 1: open source hardware business
Miracle 2: privacy focused business
To the extent open source hw/sw SUPPORTS privacy, they're in alignment as a single miracle. But the alignment isn't perfect, it's all still so new. To put it another way, if Purism fails that doesn't affect System76 much. But if System76 fails that likely means a rough road ahead for Purism.
Those who can at all muster the courage and budget to buy Purism right now totally should. Lead the way where others cannot.
- TylerLives 5y agoHow are Purism and System76 related?
- relax88 5y agoThey both provide a means of running a user-first and privacy-first operating system on a laptop without supporting surveillance capitalists. You can’t really buy a Dell or a MacBook, install Debian or some other *nix OS and make the same claim.
- TylerLives 5y agoWhat I meant was: Why would System76 failing affect Purism (negatively)? I understand that there's some correlation as they're both targeting a similar audience, but it doesn't seem to me like they depend too much on one another.
- pxc 5y agoPurism is downstream to some of System76's coreboot work iirc
- istingray 5y agoAppreciate the clarification. I didn't know about the bootwork example, I meant reliant more generally. System76 is one of the few Linux-first hardware companies. Dell and Lenovo do this but as an aside. System76 is 100% Linux. If there were an entire ecosystem of Linux-first open hardware developers, Purism could simply provide a few hardware and software tweaks (ie hw switches for wifi) for enhanced privacy. The problem is Purism is forced to bear the weight of being one of the few open hw/sw vendors AND all the additional anti-surveillance pieces too. Curious if this explanation helped you.
- TylerLives 5y agoIt did. Thanks.
- vorpalhex 5y agoYou can buy a Dell with Ubuntu already installed...
- istingray 5y agoThere is one Dell laptop you can buy with Ubuntu: Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition [1] Linux is a side project for Dell at best. [1] https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/new-xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/ctox139w10p2c3000u https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo... edit to add dell link
- kashura 5y agoI don't even see that XPS available on dell.com anymore.
- istingray 5y agoSearch engines also seem to have trouble finding it. It turns up only when I enter "dell xps 13 developer edition": https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/new-xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/ctox139w10p2c3000u https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
- vorpalhex 5y agoSeveral of their business PCs support linux. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystems https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem...
- contingencies 5y agoNo longer available and was only ever limited distribution AFAIK. Also, their hardware has a habit of dying suddenly. For non-free vendors I recommend replacing Windows on current-era Lenovo laptop hardware, AFAIK so far everything just works out of the box.
- 5y ago
- fsflover 5y agoThe difference is, most of System76’s laptops are barebones models from Clevo, whereas Purism designs its own laptops.
- istingray 5y agoAs a new System76 customer, I like their stepwise approach. It tells me they're thinking long term and not rushing. That's what I want to support is a longterm open hardware+software industry. My understanding is they've started selling their own desktop models after selling white-labeled machines in the past. And that with laptops they are quite involved in the design process and are inching towards selling their own custom laptops. If Purism fails it will likely be because they did too much from scratch. Taking on hardware and software all at once is a recipe for disaster. It's super expensive.
- 3r8Oltr0ziouVDM 5y agoKeep in mind that both Purism and System76 still use proprietary CPUs (at least) so their machines are not completely open. There is a backdoor in every Intel and AMD chip that has full control over your computer. If you want 100% open hardware, there is https://www.raptorcs.com/ https://www.raptorcs.com/.
- Klonoar 5y agoI believe both these companies go to lengths to disable Intel ME & co (where possible). Raptor is a cool option if you have the money and want a desktop approach, but if you're after a laptop you're ultimately playing the game of "how much can I deal with binary blobs and proprietary bits". Hell, for Purism's laptops it's not uncommon for people to shove in a different wifi card to get modern speeds - the card they use is used for being able to run with only open source drivers, which are old at this point.
- fsflover 5y agoMore details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Commercial_ME_disablement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Commer....
- nonplus 5y agoOf the two people I know who ordered one, 0 have been delivered. I'm well into worried this is another eve laptop / failed to deliver a real product situation. So even if they are not sold out, Purism is not getting any money from me until I hear of delivered products to people I know.
- LukeShu 5y agoI am still waiting on my Librem 5 phone (since April 2020). However, I've had my Librem 15 laptop (same order date) since June 2020. They are an actual existing company that has shipped a lot of real actual laptops to people. It sucks that they're taking so long to deliver the Librem 5 phone.
- nonplus 5y agoThat's good to hear, I don't know anyone who ordered the laptop so it's something to hear people online are receiving their products.
- kop316 5y agoMines being shipped now, it should arrive early next week! ...though I guess I am not someone you know.
- pengaru 5y agoMy friend received his, so it's not exactly pure vaporware. But it's also not usable enough to be his daily driver either AIUI.
- freedomben 5y agoCongrats on the System76 laptop! I'm excited for you. My advice would be to keep Pop OS in place at least until you're feeling confident. It's a good distro that you can use forever, but part of the fun of being a Linux user is freedom to explore and try things. Do you have a community/destination to go for help if/when you need it? I would imagine you shouldn't need much unless you like to leave the beaten path, but it's always good to have some idea.
- istingray 5y agoAppreciate the encouragement! I'm planning to pipe all feedback and expectations to System76 directly. I know what I bought likely isn't as good as my Mac from a look and feel standpoint. The Linux community seems incredible, and I'm looking for opportunities to pay money to do my part to push it.
- mdp2021 5y ago> but part of the fun of being a Linux user is freedom to explore and try things [from poster freedomben] Make yourself a few virtual machines for that, initially... Then try loading systems on the laptop from a USB Mass Storage Device (meaning, the non destructive way, without writing to the disk).
- zwayhowder 5y agoI highly recommend you adjust your perspective. Look for the positives not the negatives. Isn't as easy to use as your Mac for some things, sure, but to start out thinking it isn't as good means you'll look for the things that are flawed instead of noticing the things that are amazing. I've used Linux as a daily driver since 2016, yes there are things that would be easier if I just owned a Mac - somewhat ironically that includes Microsoft Office - but there are many things that are just amazing on Linux. The ability to pipe audio from one program into another, or quickly create a virtual audio device that combines two get a lot of use from me on the unending stream of video calls. The fact my home directory contains all my configs in plain test making it easy for me to have the same custom setup across 3 different computers (and all nicely versioned in git). How about the fact that while I love a keyboard centric tiling window manager (i3wm) when my wife or son log in they get a KDE or Gnome desktop that is as familiar to them as their existing Window's computers.
- jstanley 5y ago"Backordered" is something of an understatement. I placed my order in February 2018 and still haven't received it.
- istingray 5y agoOh wow! I had no idea. That's wild. Check out System76 for other Linux-first options.
- relax88 5y agoYeah I had no issues with shipping my Librem 15 laptop, it was only a few weeks. The phone however I opted for the Evergreen release of the Librem 5 hoping to get something a little more polished. I’ve been waiting since summer 2019. It seems they’ve been having issues with manufacturing, possibly due to small order sizes plus semiconductor shortages plus COVID. I think the reason system76 has less issues is that it isn’t custom silicon. I’m not sure about Pine but perhaps it’s the same case? The Librem 15 is a decent laptop and is very serviceable / easy to repair but for the price it’s definitely not as good as the build quality of a Dell XPS for example. I really like the idea of a quality open source phone (hardware and software) that isn’t sold by surveillance capitalists, which is why I support them but I still don’t know if I’ll use it as a daily driver.
- kop316 5y agoI would suggest getting Pinephone is you want to dip your toes in the water. They are much cheaper, and generally take about a month to get from pine64 directly.