10 ms·

PureOS – a pure Linux phone experience

122 points by TimTheTinker 5y ago

TimTheTinker 5y ago
Is PureOS compatible with any other phone besides Librem?
- fsflover 5y ago
  Only smartphones which provide good, open documentation and specs can run alternative OSes. Pinephone is the only such smarptphone apart from Librem 5, and it can run PureOS: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9361 https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9361.
  - thereddaikon 5y ago
    And while I've yet to see anyone with a librem 5 other than journalists and youtubers my pinephone arrived last year when they said it would. It ain't perfect but its a real product.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      Yes, they definitely have problems with the phone's supply chain: https://puri.sm/posts/the-ball-and-supply-chain/ https://puri.sm/posts/the-ball-and-supply-chain/.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  Not itself, no - but Mobian is compatible with other similarly open phones (so basically the PinePhone and a few others) and runs essentially the same software: https://mobian-project.org/ https://mobian-project.org/ For other Android phones there's Droidian which is downstream of Mobian; I've not used it myself though so can't speak to its current state: https://droidian.org/ https://droidian.org/
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  The only phone officially supported by PureOS is Librem 5. There were also people adapting it to PinePhone unofficially.
zulu314 5y ago
Back in March I was super excited to order the "shipping in June" librem 14 laptop. Contacted support, was told august 1st, no news. I would stay clear of this company. They might have good intentions but clearly they suck at supply chain.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Everyone "sucks at supply chain" today, even Apple [0] and Toyota [1]. [0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/28/apple-warns-of-ipad-and-mac-supply-issues-in-second-half-of-2021 https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/28/apple-warns-of-ip... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 By the way, many customers reported that they received their laptops on forums.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  We can't get anything electronic in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable price right now, surely we could cut a major underdog a little slack.
- squarefoot 5y ago
  I was looking for a certain GX-412TC based firewall mainboard a few days ago, so different hardware and different vendor: the delivery time was over 200 days. It's not their fault, it's like that pretty much everywhere. Just try to buy a graphics card at 2019 prices; no way.
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  The world sucks at supply chain right now. Even with the best intentions and planning, lead times have been expanding faster than orders come in. Orders are being pushed back and cancelled by vendors, and parts are disappearing from distributors very quickly. Even the huge players shipping millions of units (Apple [0], Toyota [1], Sony [2], Samsung [3]), who are usually able to order the manufacturers around (in what's really a "bank owns you" vs "you own the bank" situation), are having trouble building products. Why would you expect a low-volume manufacturer to be in any way capable of doing better? [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/apples-iphone-hot-streak-will-run-into-global-chip-shortage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/apples-iphone-hot-streak-wil... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/sony-is-said-to-cut-ps5-forecast-by-4-million-due-to-chip-woes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/sony-is-s... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-17/samsung-warns-of-serious-imbalance-in-the-chips-industry https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-17/samsung-w...
fsflover 5y ago
PureOS is officially endorsed by the FSF [0], and it's the most popular one among the endorsed [1]. [0] https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-adds-pureos-to-list-of-endorsed-gnu-linux-distributions-1 https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-adds-pureos-to-list-of-endorsed... [1] https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
smallerfish 5y ago
Is there any move towards a Linux-mobile equivalent of FlatPak, so that the same apps can be made to run on PureOS, Sailfish, Plasma Mobile, etc? It'd be in vendors' interest to collaborate on a common standard, as developers are going to find it a pain to have to target different distros, as has happened on desktop Linux. Given that it's a more or less brand new space, might as fix the problem before it becomes one.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  There is, and it's called... well, Flatpak :)
  - smallerfish 5y ago
    Good - and there's legitimately consensus on using it in the various mobile os app stores?
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Workstation/Flatpak.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Wo... > Linux-mobile equivalent Librem 5 runs desktop GNU/Linux, so you don't need any equivalents really.
istingray 5y ago
Super curious about Librem 5 myself, though they're currently backordered and I'm a Linux newbie. If someone has one gathering dust, email is in my profile. My first step to switching off Apple is my laptop. I bought a System76 laptop. I also considered the Purism laptop. I'm a Linux newbie and went with System76, some explanation below. (Shipping times were also a factor in my decision) Purism's challenge is they may be trying to solve a "2-miracles problem". Miracle 1: open source hardware business Miracle 2: privacy focused business To the extent open source hw/sw SUPPORTS privacy, they're in alignment as a single miracle. But the alignment isn't perfect, it's all still so new. To put it another way, if Purism fails that doesn't affect System76 much. But if System76 fails that likely means a rough road ahead for Purism. Those who can at all muster the courage and budget to buy Purism right now totally should. Lead the way where others cannot.
- TylerLives 5y ago
  How are Purism and System76 related?
  - relax88 5y ago
    They both provide a means of running a user-first and privacy-first operating system on a laptop without supporting surveillance capitalists. You can’t really buy a Dell or a MacBook, install Debian or some other *nix OS and make the same claim.
    - TylerLives 5y ago
      What I meant was: Why would System76 failing affect Purism (negatively)? I understand that there's some correlation as they're both targeting a similar audience, but it doesn't seem to me like they depend too much on one another.
      - pxc 5y ago
        Purism is downstream to some of System76's coreboot work iirc
AzzieElbab 5y ago
Big Ouch on that 2k phone
- fsflover 5y ago
  Only the made-in-USA version costs $2k.
  - masterof0 5y ago
    Yeah, the other one cost 900. Not necessarily cheap. https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      if the bill can be flatten let's make it so
- jwithington 5y ago
  i had that same confusion! they should clarify that on their site.
- masterof0 5y ago
  Yeah, I wonder why they didn't prioritize lowering the cost to make it more accessible to people? This project can only take of if lots of people start using the phone. I doubt a few hundreds of folks, mostly in first world countries, with a decently high income, would be a large enough crowd for this project's long time success, I hope they become successful. The laptop in the other hand, is decently priced, for what it offers.
- comprev 5y ago
  Absolutely bonkers pricing. Looks like the niche market is die-hard people on FAANG engineer salaries.
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    Or journalists, or politicians, or dissidents... anyone whose livelihood depends on privacy.
SubiculumCode 5y ago
Curious, is there a way to run android apps (either natively or in a vm)?
- fsflover 5y ago
  Yes, in Anbox: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#314-how-are-android-apps-installed-in-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
GRBurst 5y ago
I am very curious about Linux phones and getting away from Android (Using Graphene OS RN). But my experience weren't very satisfying. Could someone give me a quick overview or link to different Linux based OS for smartphones? How is this one different from Sailfish? Happy to hear from you! :-)
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p... Sailfish is proprietary, not FLOSS.
  - GRBurst 5y ago
    Ah nice, short and concise and the link looks like what wanted, perfect
nickstinemates 5y ago
Cool let me know when its available so I can buy one.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Consider supporting them with a preorder if you can. They have a hard time currently AFAIK.
  - nickstinemates 5y ago
    180 day lead time with a warning about procurement delays doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Along with a $900 price tag seems a little too risky.
runako 5y ago
This looks very interesting. However, it does put into context how much value operational scale brings: - The Librem 5 specs out in the ballpark of the 2016 iPhone 7 Plus. - My goodness it's expensive. Similarly-specced iPhones still on the market are in the $300 range. Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money, but it's still surprising to see the magnitude of the value differential. I'm always going to root for more competition in the market, so I hope this does well. But I am baffled at who the target market is. "Is okay with outdated phone but willing to pay 3x for it" would seem to be a very small market.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money It's much more than just kill switches: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
  - runako 5y ago
    Hence the "etc." in my comment. But the product page on the website (not the community wiki, which is not linked from the product page) leads with the low specs and the next feature is kill switches. I didn't make the choice of how to position the product.
- masterof0 5y ago
  You are buying into the ideology/promise/cause. Is like buying a $200 poster, just because it has your favorite singer/politician/influencer/... on it.
  - neilsimp1 5y ago
    Maybe. But you're also financing the development of free software that is used not only by Purism but other companies and FOSS groups.
gunapologist99 5y ago
If you want an actual (non-Android) Linux phone experience, there's only one that's actually shipping: https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-convergence-package/ https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-conve...
- fsflover 5y ago
  But note that it's significantly less performant than Librem 5: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p....
  - gunapologist99 5y ago
    True, but from $899 to > $2,000, it's also at least 4.5 times as expensive (!!!) as $199 for the PinePhone. And, it exists today and runs an Arch Linux derivative like the SteamDeck. As they say in the old country, a device in the hand is worth two in the bush.
  - Klonoar 5y ago
    The thing is, neither of these devices is a usable daily driver yet for people outside of fanatics (and I don't say this with negativity - fanaticism is probably what builds these products, or sub your term here, e.g devoted). If you're looking to dabble and write apps to contribute to the ecosystem, the PinePhone is arguably a steal. I grabbed one over the Librem 5 mostly due to price and availability.
- b1n 5y ago
  My PinePhone runs significantly faster than my Librem 5, on account of my Librem 5 not existing - even after being part of the original kickstarter-esq funding.
dogman144 5y ago
I'd love to buy Purism phone but their shipping delays seem insane.
olyjohn 5y ago
I'm desperate to get off of the iPhone / Android ecosystem. The problem for me is that I live in a weird spot and no cell reception comes to my house. I bought a Pinephone, but it doesn't support WiFi calling... Is there an open source phone like this that supports WiFi calling? I used to own a femtocell back in the 3g days... but I'm on an MVNO who doesn't offer one, and WiFi calling is the only way I can get any service at my house. I have a landline, but it gets so many junk phone calls, I'm about to disconnect it completely... Maybe I need an LTE repeater with a big ass antenna mounted high above my house. Seems like the only option I have, if those even exist.
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://social.librem.one/@joao/106815850485862296 https://social.librem.one/@joao/106815850485862296
- xbmcuser 5y ago
  You can get Chinese built repeaters for $100-200 I know of them as a friend was also thinking of installing one but he moved to another city so can't recommend a brand or anything
- kop316 5y ago
  > open source phone like this that supports WiFi calling Even on Android, WiFi Calling is done via a proprietary library, AOSP doesn't support it. As of now, no one has attempted to RE the protocol, so no open source solution exists.
mark_l_watson 5y ago
I have a few questions, stuff I couldn’t find out about on the web site. Does the USB-C port drive an external monitor supporting a Linux desktop? Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive? Anyway, a great project.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > Does the USB-C port drive an external monitor supporting a Linux desktop Yes, they call it "convergence": https://puri.sm/posts/mobile-desktop-convergence/ https://puri.sm/posts/mobile-desktop-convergence/. > Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive? Some people reported receiving their Librem 5 USA, so probably yes. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#56-why-does-the-librem-5-usa-cost-so-much https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
  - mark_l_watson 5y ago
    Thanks!, the mobile/desktop/convergence is what I was thinking of. The linked article says that it is still under development, but in the future that is what I am looking forward to: a powerful pocket device that can plug into a monitor/keyboard/mouse in my study, into a whole wall display in our living room, and public I/O devices in libraries, offices, malls, friends' homes, etc. One can dream, right? There is another great alternative for the longer term future: compute would be everywhere as well as public I/O devices for user interaction. Wherever you are, you could be recognized and your personal environment would be right there. Pardon me for going far-afield here, but I am a fan of Gibson's cyberpunk sci-fi future, and I enjoy imagining what the combination of tech/society/governance/etc. will be.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > The linked article says that it is still under development, but in the future that is what I am looking forward to: a powerful pocket device that can plug into a monitor/keyboard/mouse in my study, into a whole wall display in our living room, and public I/O devices in libraries, offices, malls, friends' homes, etc. One can dream, right? Well, according to many articles [0] and videos, this is practically a reality already. Also confirmed by people not affiliated with Purism [1]. [0] https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/ https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/ [1] https://social.librem.one/tags/convergence https://social.librem.one/tags/convergence.
LeoPanthera 5y ago
From the page: > It is the only smartphone on the market today to ship with a fully-free and auditable operating system, from the ground up, that is created in your best interest instead of corporations’ bottom lines. It is the only project with a bona fide community instead of a “Big Corp” governance model. Was this written before the PinePhone or does the PinePhone not count somehow?
- fsflover 5y ago
  Pinephone requires two binary blobs for the WiFi/Bluetooth in Linux kernel, and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs. Concerning the community, you might be right, although Librem 5 was probably first here (announced in 2017).
  - Arnavion 5y ago
    >Pinephone requires two binary blobs for the WiFi/Bluetooth [...] One binary blob for the WiFi/Bluetooth. The other binary blob is for the modem, for which an alternative OSS firmware has been in development for some time. There's also a third blob for the camera autofocus firmware. >[...] in Linux kernel, [...] All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel. It's identical to the Librem 5 in this regard; the Librem 5 also has firmware blobs for WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and some others, but no blob drivers. >[...] and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs. You can disable the WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and camera with hardware switches. Given that, and that the RYF criteria allows firmware blobs for auxiliary chips, I'm not sure why it would apply differently to the Librem 5 vs the PinePhone.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel. Blobs means proprietary pieces of software. Firmware is software, too, it just runs not on the main CPU. If it resides in the OS, then the OS has "binary blobs", according to the definition by FSF. Librem 5 also has blobs, but they are not in the OS. They reside in the WiFi card and in the modem, both of which are replaceable pieces of hardware, not really parts of the the phone itself.
kop316 5y ago
Something that I would offer that, though Purism does advertise, I do wish they would hit it home more, they give a lot to the FOSS community. No really, they give back A LOT. - Phosh, their phone shell, it being worked into upstream GNOME, and libhandy, which they started, is in upstream gtk4. GNOME Calls used to be a Purism app, now it is a GNOME app being maintained primarily by Purism. - Several of their full time staff are Debian Maintainers and Debian Developers. One of the full time staff is a Mobian Developer and is very active in maintaining/developing Mobian. - Purism has made a lot of effort to ensure that their applications and framework is available to the Pinephone, and to the greater community. Purism's work has helped advanced the Pinephone many times over. - Several Purism employees are active in the Pinephone community, and help out not only the devs, but users who need help! - For those that know my work (I have been working on MMS and VVM for the Pinephone/Librem 5), the Purism developers took a lot of time to help and mentor me so that I could get these features out there. They simply did not have to do that, but they did. I simply do not think those features would be available at all if it weren't for their help. (To those devs, I won't name you as I don't know if you want to be named, but you know who you are, You have my sincere gratitude.) - Their Coreboot efforts has enabled others to port coreboot to other laptops. Here is one example: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50924.html?thread=1900524 https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50924.html?thread=1900524 These are just examples I am exposed to and can readily give off the top of my head. To me, a company that does that sort of work, I do think they are sincere in the fact that they have supply chain troubles, which is why the Librem 5 has taken so long to get into users hands. Also, I see that $799 price tag as not only buying the phone, but also paying the developers who do all of the wonderful things that I outlined above. As much as I like the Pinephone, the $150 you pay is for just that, the phone. Most of the software ecosystem you see from the Pinephone comes from unpaid volunteers (such as myself). I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I actually think having such a cheap phone is great! But I don't think a lot of folks have these things in mind when they see the difference in price. And before it's asked, yes, my Librem 5 has shipped, I should get the package early next week.
fataliss 5y ago
Is the expected Linus mobile os experience more of a mini laptop with a touchscreen or are they really going after the Android/iOS feel?
- Arnavion 5y ago
  The latter. You can look up videos of "phosh" to see what it looks like. If you want a mini-laptop OS because you always run it docked or something, you're of course free to use a desktop-first shell that provides that. Though the phone-first shells also support that already ("convergence").
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    The videos of 'phosh' one can see online are not that encouraging - the experience seems very sluggish and quite far from "daily driver" quality.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      It depends on how old those videos are: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-getting-faster-with-age/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-getting-faster-with-age/.
spicybright 5y ago
I'm always very nervous about replacing my phone with something not main stream. My laptop is fine to tinker with, but I don't want some issue coming up making me unable to use my phone in a situation where I'd need it.
mgarfias 5y ago
What about apps?
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://linmobapps.frama.io/ https://linmobapps.frama.io/ https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#31-what-apps-will-be-available-for-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...

122 points by TimTheTinker 5y ago

TimTheTinker 5y ago

Is PureOS compatible with any other phone besides Librem?

fsflover 5y ago
Only smartphones which provide good, open documentation and specs can run alternative OSes. Pinephone is the only such smarptphone apart from Librem 5, and it can run PureOS: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9361 https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9361.
- thereddaikon 5y ago
  And while I've yet to see anyone with a librem 5 other than journalists and youtubers my pinephone arrived last year when they said it would. It ain't perfect but its a real product.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Yes, they definitely have problems with the phone's supply chain: https://puri.sm/posts/the-ball-and-supply-chain/ https://puri.sm/posts/the-ball-and-supply-chain/.
ryukafalz 5y ago
Not itself, no - but Mobian is compatible with other similarly open phones (so basically the PinePhone and a few others) and runs essentially the same software: https://mobian-project.org/ https://mobian-project.org/ For other Android phones there's Droidian which is downstream of Mobian; I've not used it myself though so can't speak to its current state: https://droidian.org/ https://droidian.org/
seba_dos1 5y ago
The only phone officially supported by PureOS is Librem 5. There were also people adapting it to PinePhone unofficially.

zulu314 5y ago

Back in March I was super excited to order the "shipping in June" librem 14 laptop. Contacted support, was told august 1st, no news. I would stay clear of this company. They might have good intentions but clearly they suck at supply chain.

fsflover 5y ago
Everyone "sucks at supply chain" today, even Apple [0] and Toyota [1]. [0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/28/apple-warns-of-ipad-and-mac-supply-issues-in-second-half-of-2021 https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/28/apple-warns-of-ip... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 By the way, many customers reported that they received their laptops on forums.
kgwxd 5y ago
We can't get anything electronic in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable price right now, surely we could cut a major underdog a little slack.
squarefoot 5y ago
I was looking for a certain GX-412TC based firewall mainboard a few days ago, so different hardware and different vendor: the delivery time was over 200 days. It's not their fault, it's like that pretty much everywhere. Just try to buy a graphics card at 2019 prices; no way.
InitialLastName 5y ago
The world sucks at supply chain right now. Even with the best intentions and planning, lead times have been expanding faster than orders come in. Orders are being pushed back and cancelled by vendors, and parts are disappearing from distributors very quickly. Even the huge players shipping millions of units (Apple [0], Toyota [1], Sony [2], Samsung [3]), who are usually able to order the manufacturers around (in what's really a "bank owns you" vs "you own the bank" situation), are having trouble building products. Why would you expect a low-volume manufacturer to be in any way capable of doing better? [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/apples-iphone-hot-streak-will-run-into-global-chip-shortage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/apples-iphone-hot-streak-wil... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794 [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/sony-is-said-to-cut-ps5-forecast-by-4-million-due-to-chip-woes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/sony-is-s... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-17/samsung-warns-of-serious-imbalance-in-the-chips-industry https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-17/samsung-w...

fsflover 5y ago

PureOS is officially endorsed by the FSF [0], and it's the most popular one among the endorsed [1]. [0] https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-adds-pureos-to-list-of-endorsed-gnu-linux-distributions-1 https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-adds-pureos-to-list-of-endorsed... [1] https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity

smallerfish 5y ago

Is there any move towards a Linux-mobile equivalent of FlatPak, so that the same apps can be made to run on PureOS, Sailfish, Plasma Mobile, etc? It'd be in vendors' interest to collaborate on a common standard, as developers are going to find it a pain to have to target different distros, as has happened on desktop Linux. Given that it's a more or less brand new space, might as fix the problem before it becomes one.

seba_dos1 5y ago
There is, and it's called... well, Flatpak :)
- smallerfish 5y ago
  Good - and there's legitimately consensus on using it in the various mobile os app stores?
fsflover 5y ago
https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Workstation/Flatpak.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Wo... > Linux-mobile equivalent Librem 5 runs desktop GNU/Linux, so you don't need any equivalents really.

istingray 5y ago

Super curious about Librem 5 myself, though they're currently backordered and I'm a Linux newbie. If someone has one gathering dust, email is in my profile. My first step to switching off Apple is my laptop. I bought a System76 laptop. I also considered the Purism laptop. I'm a Linux newbie and went with System76, some explanation below. (Shipping times were also a factor in my decision) Purism's challenge is they may be trying to solve a "2-miracles problem". Miracle 1: open source hardware business Miracle 2: privacy focused business To the extent open source hw/sw SUPPORTS privacy, they're in alignment as a single miracle. But the alignment isn't perfect, it's all still so new. To put it another way, if Purism fails that doesn't affect System76 much. But if System76 fails that likely means a rough road ahead for Purism. Those who can at all muster the courage and budget to buy Purism right now totally should. Lead the way where others cannot.

TylerLives 5y ago
How are Purism and System76 related?
- relax88 5y ago
  They both provide a means of running a user-first and privacy-first operating system on a laptop without supporting surveillance capitalists. You can’t really buy a Dell or a MacBook, install Debian or some other *nix OS and make the same claim.
  - TylerLives 5y ago
    What I meant was: Why would System76 failing affect Purism (negatively)? I understand that there's some correlation as they're both targeting a similar audience, but it doesn't seem to me like they depend too much on one another.
    - pxc 5y ago
      Purism is downstream to some of System76's coreboot work iirc

AzzieElbab 5y ago

Big Ouch on that 2k phone

fsflover 5y ago
Only the made-in-USA version costs $2k.
- masterof0 5y ago
  Yeah, the other one cost 900. Not necessarily cheap. https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    if the bill can be flatten let's make it so
jwithington 5y ago
i had that same confusion! they should clarify that on their site.
masterof0 5y ago
Yeah, I wonder why they didn't prioritize lowering the cost to make it more accessible to people? This project can only take of if lots of people start using the phone. I doubt a few hundreds of folks, mostly in first world countries, with a decently high income, would be a large enough crowd for this project's long time success, I hope they become successful. The laptop in the other hand, is decently priced, for what it offers.
comprev 5y ago
Absolutely bonkers pricing. Looks like the niche market is die-hard people on FAANG engineer salaries.
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  Or journalists, or politicians, or dissidents... anyone whose livelihood depends on privacy.

SubiculumCode 5y ago

Curious, is there a way to run android apps (either natively or in a vm)?

fsflover 5y ago
Yes, in Anbox: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#314-how-are-android-apps-installed-in-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....

GRBurst 5y ago

I am very curious about Linux phones and getting away from Android (Using Graphene OS RN). But my experience weren't very satisfying. Could someone give me a quick overview or link to different Linux based OS for smartphones? How is this one different from Sailfish? Happy to hear from you! :-)

fsflover 5y ago
https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p... Sailfish is proprietary, not FLOSS.
- GRBurst 5y ago
  Ah nice, short and concise and the link looks like what wanted, perfect

nickstinemates 5y ago

Cool let me know when its available so I can buy one.

fsflover 5y ago
Consider supporting them with a preorder if you can. They have a hard time currently AFAIK.
- nickstinemates 5y ago
  180 day lead time with a warning about procurement delays doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Along with a $900 price tag seems a little too risky.

runako 5y ago

This looks very interesting. However, it does put into context how much value operational scale brings: - The Librem 5 specs out in the ballpark of the 2016 iPhone 7 Plus. - My goodness it's expensive. Similarly-specced iPhones still on the market are in the $300 range. Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money, but it's still surprising to see the magnitude of the value differential. I'm always going to root for more competition in the market, so I hope this does well. But I am baffled at who the target market is. "Is okay with outdated phone but willing to pay 3x for it" would seem to be a very small market.

fsflover 5y ago
> Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money It's much more than just kill switches: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
- runako 5y ago
  Hence the "etc." in my comment. But the product page on the website (not the community wiki, which is not linked from the product page) leads with the low specs and the next feature is kill switches. I didn't make the choice of how to position the product.
masterof0 5y ago
You are buying into the ideology/promise/cause. Is like buying a $200 poster, just because it has your favorite singer/politician/influencer/... on it.
- neilsimp1 5y ago
  Maybe. But you're also financing the development of free software that is used not only by Purism but other companies and FOSS groups.

gunapologist99 5y ago

If you want an actual (non-Android) Linux phone experience, there's only one that's actually shipping: https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-convergence-package/ https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-conve...

fsflover 5y ago
But note that it's significantly less performant than Librem 5: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p....
- gunapologist99 5y ago
  True, but from $899 to > $2,000, it's also at least 4.5 times as expensive (!!!) as $199 for the PinePhone. And, it exists today and runs an Arch Linux derivative like the SteamDeck. As they say in the old country, a device in the hand is worth two in the bush.
- Klonoar 5y ago
  The thing is, neither of these devices is a usable daily driver yet for people outside of fanatics (and I don't say this with negativity - fanaticism is probably what builds these products, or sub your term here, e.g devoted). If you're looking to dabble and write apps to contribute to the ecosystem, the PinePhone is arguably a steal. I grabbed one over the Librem 5 mostly due to price and availability.
b1n 5y ago
My PinePhone runs significantly faster than my Librem 5, on account of my Librem 5 not existing - even after being part of the original kickstarter-esq funding.

dogman144 5y ago

I'd love to buy Purism phone but their shipping delays seem insane.

olyjohn 5y ago

I'm desperate to get off of the iPhone / Android ecosystem. The problem for me is that I live in a weird spot and no cell reception comes to my house. I bought a Pinephone, but it doesn't support WiFi calling... Is there an open source phone like this that supports WiFi calling? I used to own a femtocell back in the 3g days... but I'm on an MVNO who doesn't offer one, and WiFi calling is the only way I can get any service at my house. I have a landline, but it gets so many junk phone calls, I'm about to disconnect it completely... Maybe I need an LTE repeater with a big ass antenna mounted high above my house. Seems like the only option I have, if those even exist.

fsflover 5y ago
https://social.librem.one/@joao/106815850485862296 https://social.librem.one/@joao/106815850485862296
xbmcuser 5y ago
You can get Chinese built repeaters for $100-200 I know of them as a friend was also thinking of installing one but he moved to another city so can't recommend a brand or anything
kop316 5y ago
> open source phone like this that supports WiFi calling Even on Android, WiFi Calling is done via a proprietary library, AOSP doesn't support it. As of now, no one has attempted to RE the protocol, so no open source solution exists.

mark_l_watson 5y ago

I have a few questions, stuff I couldn’t find out about on the web site. Does the USB-C port drive an external monitor supporting a Linux desktop? Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive? Anyway, a great project.

fsflover 5y ago
> Does the USB-C port drive an external monitor supporting a Linux desktop Yes, they call it "convergence": https://puri.sm/posts/mobile-desktop-convergence/ https://puri.sm/posts/mobile-desktop-convergence/. > Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive? Some people reported receiving their Librem 5 USA, so probably yes. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#56-why-does-the-librem-5-usa-cost-so-much https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
- mark_l_watson 5y ago
  Thanks!, the mobile/desktop/convergence is what I was thinking of. The linked article says that it is still under development, but in the future that is what I am looking forward to: a powerful pocket device that can plug into a monitor/keyboard/mouse in my study, into a whole wall display in our living room, and public I/O devices in libraries, offices, malls, friends' homes, etc. One can dream, right? There is another great alternative for the longer term future: compute would be everywhere as well as public I/O devices for user interaction. Wherever you are, you could be recognized and your personal environment would be right there. Pardon me for going far-afield here, but I am a fan of Gibson's cyberpunk sci-fi future, and I enjoy imagining what the combination of tech/society/governance/etc. will be.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > The linked article says that it is still under development, but in the future that is what I am looking forward to: a powerful pocket device that can plug into a monitor/keyboard/mouse in my study, into a whole wall display in our living room, and public I/O devices in libraries, offices, malls, friends' homes, etc. One can dream, right? Well, according to many articles [0] and videos, this is practically a reality already. Also confirmed by people not affiliated with Purism [1]. [0] https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/ https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/ [1] https://social.librem.one/tags/convergence https://social.librem.one/tags/convergence.

LeoPanthera 5y ago

From the page: > It is the only smartphone on the market today to ship with a fully-free and auditable operating system, from the ground up, that is created in your best interest instead of corporations’ bottom lines. It is the only project with a bona fide community instead of a “Big Corp” governance model. Was this written before the PinePhone or does the PinePhone not count somehow?

fsflover 5y ago
Pinephone requires two binary blobs for the WiFi/Bluetooth in Linux kernel, and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs. Concerning the community, you might be right, although Librem 5 was probably first here (announced in 2017).
- Arnavion 5y ago
  >Pinephone requires two binary blobs for the WiFi/Bluetooth [...] One binary blob for the WiFi/Bluetooth. The other binary blob is for the modem, for which an alternative OSS firmware has been in development for some time. There's also a third blob for the camera autofocus firmware. >[...] in Linux kernel, [...] All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel. It's identical to the Librem 5 in this regard; the Librem 5 also has firmware blobs for WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and some others, but no blob drivers. >[...] and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs. You can disable the WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and camera with hardware switches. Given that, and that the RYF criteria allows firmware blobs for auxiliary chips, I'm not sure why it would apply differently to the Librem 5 vs the PinePhone.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel. Blobs means proprietary pieces of software. Firmware is software, too, it just runs not on the main CPU. If it resides in the OS, then the OS has "binary blobs", according to the definition by FSF. Librem 5 also has blobs, but they are not in the OS. They reside in the WiFi card and in the modem, both of which are replaceable pieces of hardware, not really parts of the the phone itself.

kop316 5y ago

Something that I would offer that, though Purism does advertise, I do wish they would hit it home more, they give a lot to the FOSS community. No really, they give back A LOT. - Phosh, their phone shell, it being worked into upstream GNOME, and libhandy, which they started, is in upstream gtk4. GNOME Calls used to be a Purism app, now it is a GNOME app being maintained primarily by Purism. - Several of their full time staff are Debian Maintainers and Debian Developers. One of the full time staff is a Mobian Developer and is very active in maintaining/developing Mobian. - Purism has made a lot of effort to ensure that their applications and framework is available to the Pinephone, and to the greater community. Purism's work has helped advanced the Pinephone many times over. - Several Purism employees are active in the Pinephone community, and help out not only the devs, but users who need help! - For those that know my work (I have been working on MMS and VVM for the Pinephone/Librem 5), the Purism developers took a lot of time to help and mentor me so that I could get these features out there. They simply did not have to do that, but they did. I simply do not think those features would be available at all if it weren't for their help. (To those devs, I won't name you as I don't know if you want to be named, but you know who you are, You have my sincere gratitude.) - Their Coreboot efforts has enabled others to port coreboot to other laptops. Here is one example: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50924.html?thread=1900524 https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50924.html?thread=1900524 These are just examples I am exposed to and can readily give off the top of my head. To me, a company that does that sort of work, I do think they are sincere in the fact that they have supply chain troubles, which is why the Librem 5 has taken so long to get into users hands. Also, I see that $799 price tag as not only buying the phone, but also paying the developers who do all of the wonderful things that I outlined above. As much as I like the Pinephone, the $150 you pay is for just that, the phone. Most of the software ecosystem you see from the Pinephone comes from unpaid volunteers (such as myself). I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I actually think having such a cheap phone is great! But I don't think a lot of folks have these things in mind when they see the difference in price. And before it's asked, yes, my Librem 5 has shipped, I should get the package early next week.

fataliss 5y ago

Is the expected Linus mobile os experience more of a mini laptop with a touchscreen or are they really going after the Android/iOS feel?

Arnavion 5y ago
The latter. You can look up videos of "phosh" to see what it looks like. If you want a mini-laptop OS because you always run it docked or something, you're of course free to use a desktop-first shell that provides that. Though the phone-first shells also support that already ("convergence").
- zozbot234 5y ago
  The videos of 'phosh' one can see online are not that encouraging - the experience seems very sluggish and quite far from "daily driver" quality.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    It depends on how old those videos are: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-getting-faster-with-age/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-getting-faster-with-age/.

spicybright 5y ago

I'm always very nervous about replacing my phone with something not main stream. My laptop is fine to tinker with, but I don't want some issue coming up making me unable to use my phone in a situation where I'd need it.

mgarfias 5y ago

What about apps?

fsflover 5y ago
https://linmobapps.frama.io/ https://linmobapps.frama.io/ https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#31-what-apps-will-be-available-for-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...