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> This is the equivalent of playing a record over the phones to my friends Yeah, that's against copyright law too. It's just that if you were doing that yourse

> This is the equivalent of playing a record over the phones to my friends Yeah, that's against copyright law too. It's just that if you were doing that yourself, it would be on too small a scale for the record industry to fight against.

prepend 5y ago
That’s not against the law. What are you talking about? I can’t deliver public performances. But I can certainly play songs for private settings. Usually explicitly, and if not, under fair use.
- camtarn 5y ago
  I was curious, so I looked up the actual law in the US. It doesn't fall under fair use, as that only covers the use of small portions of a work for a very limited set of uses. But you might be right. It really depends on whether playing something over the phone is considered a retransmission of a broadcast, whether it's considered the creation of a broadcast, or whether it's considered a single performance. Section 110 subsection 4: (4)performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work otherwise than in a transmission to the public, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and without payment of any fee or other compensation for the performance to any of its performers, promoters, or organizers, if— (A)there is no direct or indirect admission charge; or... And under section 101, 'Definitions': To perform or display a work “publicly” means— (1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered; or (2) to transmit or otherwise communicate a performance or display of the work to a place specified by clause (1) or to the public, by means of any device or process, whether the members of the public capable of receiving the performance or display receive it in the same place or in separate places and at the same time or at different times. So - you're all good if you're just playing music for your friends at home. But I can't find anything at all regarding taking a work and turning it into a limited transmission embodying that work, other than the code generally saying that broadcasts to the public must be licensed. Anyway, while this was a fascinating exercise, I haven't actually come up with a solid answer. I take back my initial statement of "yeah that's against the law" and replace it with "...that might be against the law?" :)
  - prepend 5y ago
    Is playing through WiFi speakers transmission? If just to myself? If I have friends present? What is the source is upstairs and the speakers are downstairs, etc. I think the key factor is non commercial and to a small audience of friends. And that was why I thought fair use. It’s not clearly defined, but Wikipedia describes it as “ flexible proportionality test that examines the purpose of the use, the amount used, and the impact on the market of the original work.” So the whole song is played but the purpose is limited and there’s zero or negligible impact on the market.
mlazos 5y ago
By this logic I can’t invite my friends over to listen to it either though right? That seems like it should be legal. I thought there was some legal threshold where it is no longer personal use but I could be wrong
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- t-writescode 5y ago
  I'm not a lawyer. I believe the difference is the 'broadcasting' part. Same with streaming movies over a Zoom call.
- meepmorp 5y ago
  You aren't sitting at home, privately listening to music with friends, though. You're streaming the music to a people in other places so they can listen to it. Those don't sound the same to me.
  - dcow 5y ago
    It does, however, sound like the cyberspace equivalent to the meatspace activity in question.

prepend 5y ago

That’s not against the law. What are you talking about? I can’t deliver public performances. But I can certainly play songs for private settings. Usually explicitly, and if not, under fair use.

camtarn 5y ago
I was curious, so I looked up the actual law in the US. It doesn't fall under fair use, as that only covers the use of small portions of a work for a very limited set of uses. But you might be right. It really depends on whether playing something over the phone is considered a retransmission of a broadcast, whether it's considered the creation of a broadcast, or whether it's considered a single performance. Section 110 subsection 4: (4)performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work otherwise than in a transmission to the public, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and without payment of any fee or other compensation for the performance to any of its performers, promoters, or organizers, if— (A)there is no direct or indirect admission charge; or... And under section 101, 'Definitions': To perform or display a work “publicly” means— (1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered; or (2) to transmit or otherwise communicate a performance or display of the work to a place specified by clause (1) or to the public, by means of any device or process, whether the members of the public capable of receiving the performance or display receive it in the same place or in separate places and at the same time or at different times. So - you're all good if you're just playing music for your friends at home. But I can't find anything at all regarding taking a work and turning it into a limited transmission embodying that work, other than the code generally saying that broadcasts to the public must be licensed. Anyway, while this was a fascinating exercise, I haven't actually come up with a solid answer. I take back my initial statement of "yeah that's against the law" and replace it with "...that might be against the law?" :)
- prepend 5y ago
  Is playing through WiFi speakers transmission? If just to myself? If I have friends present? What is the source is upstairs and the speakers are downstairs, etc. I think the key factor is non commercial and to a small audience of friends. And that was why I thought fair use. It’s not clearly defined, but Wikipedia describes it as “ flexible proportionality test that examines the purpose of the use, the amount used, and the impact on the market of the original work.” So the whole song is played but the purpose is limited and there’s zero or negligible impact on the market.

mlazos 5y ago

By this logic I can’t invite my friends over to listen to it either though right? That seems like it should be legal. I thought there was some legal threshold where it is no longer personal use but I could be wrong

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
t-writescode 5y ago
I'm not a lawyer. I believe the difference is the 'broadcasting' part. Same with streaming movies over a Zoom call.
meepmorp 5y ago
You aren't sitting at home, privately listening to music with friends, though. You're streaming the music to a people in other places so they can listen to it. Those don't sound the same to me.
- dcow 5y ago
  It does, however, sound like the cyberspace equivalent to the meatspace activity in question.