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Gosh I wish Apple with their loads of cash and drive to have the highest performing chip would get big ole fabs on US and EU shores. The fact that a disputed co

Gosh I wish Apple with their loads of cash and drive to have the highest performing chip would get big ole fabs on US and EU shores. The fact that a disputed country owns the best fabs is downright scary for the future of the world (add in that the disputing country is the next superpower).

segphault 5y ago
TSMC is building a $12b manufacturing facility in Arizona that will be able to produce the 5nm chips used in Apple products. They are fully aware of the geopolitical risks and are taking responsible steps to mitigate them. To the extent that the higher unit prices help them cover those investments, I'm more than happy to pay whatever portion of the increase gets passed on to consumers.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  Apple is already on 5nm. By the time that fab is built, Apple will want to be on 3 or 2nm
- pradn 5y ago
  There's a complex game being played here by TSMC, the Taiwanese government, and the US. TSMC as a company probably wants to be resilient by having manufacturing in multiple locales. But it has a unique set of benefits provided by Taiwan - a solidly educated workforce with fewer options than in, say, the US for top-tier jobs, a dense and well-connected country that allows them to shift talent much easier than elsewhere, and a government thats extremely interested in maintaining their dominance. These factors make it hard to move out of Taiwan. Taiwan itself wants to keep its golden goose, the one thing it has that guarantees it a seat at the negotiating table with the US, China, and EU. Why voluntarily give up the one thing that makes people want to defend you, especially in light of NATO promises of protection falling flat recently with Afghanistan and the anti-internationalist angle made prevalent by Trump. The US, of course, wants to protect its economy, reliant on high-tech components and be the guarantor of a country that gives the US leverage over other countries. The 5nm plant is a good step for the US, but AFAIK, produces a small fraction of total 5nm output. And by the time it opens, 3nm will be the leading edge. It feels like a small concession by TSMC/Taiwan to keep the US off their back, but not significant enough. I mean, how do you even transfer thousands of talented engineers that far, with logistics and factory construction, too? It's not easy.
janekm 5y ago
Apple know that just setting up fabs without all the infrastructure to package, test, and then manufacture products with the chips doesn't really solve anything. The last time Apple tried to do any manufacturing in the US the project failed because they couldn't find anyone to manufacture the screws: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-china-made.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-...

segphault 5y ago

TSMC is building a $12b manufacturing facility in Arizona that will be able to produce the 5nm chips used in Apple products. They are fully aware of the geopolitical risks and are taking responsible steps to mitigate them. To the extent that the higher unit prices help them cover those investments, I'm more than happy to pay whatever portion of the increase gets passed on to consumers.

babypuncher 5y ago
Apple is already on 5nm. By the time that fab is built, Apple will want to be on 3 or 2nm
pradn 5y ago
There's a complex game being played here by TSMC, the Taiwanese government, and the US. TSMC as a company probably wants to be resilient by having manufacturing in multiple locales. But it has a unique set of benefits provided by Taiwan - a solidly educated workforce with fewer options than in, say, the US for top-tier jobs, a dense and well-connected country that allows them to shift talent much easier than elsewhere, and a government thats extremely interested in maintaining their dominance. These factors make it hard to move out of Taiwan. Taiwan itself wants to keep its golden goose, the one thing it has that guarantees it a seat at the negotiating table with the US, China, and EU. Why voluntarily give up the one thing that makes people want to defend you, especially in light of NATO promises of protection falling flat recently with Afghanistan and the anti-internationalist angle made prevalent by Trump. The US, of course, wants to protect its economy, reliant on high-tech components and be the guarantor of a country that gives the US leverage over other countries. The 5nm plant is a good step for the US, but AFAIK, produces a small fraction of total 5nm output. And by the time it opens, 3nm will be the leading edge. It feels like a small concession by TSMC/Taiwan to keep the US off their back, but not significant enough. I mean, how do you even transfer thousands of talented engineers that far, with logistics and factory construction, too? It's not easy.

janekm 5y ago

Apple know that just setting up fabs without all the infrastructure to package, test, and then manufacture products with the chips doesn't really solve anything. The last time Apple tried to do any manufacturing in the US the project failed because they couldn't find anyone to manufacture the screws: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-china-made.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-...