3 ms·

> At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war

> At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. but we actually won that war, which precipitated a rise to global hegemon status. covid has been a pathetic, fumbling showing, one that clearly reflects institutional decay and foreshadows future decline -- the reverse of the first situation

wil421 5y ago
WW2 had the Red Scare, Japanese interment camps, and shocking amounts of human experimentation. I would like to hear about the fear mongering and downright lies that were going on during WW2 from someone who was there. I’d bet there was lots of misinformation going around, social media has made those types of things flourish. If you look back at history through rose-tinted glasses everything will appear better than it was.
- foxhop 5y ago
  Especially once it stops being about race when we say we need to investigate how humans used the Scienctific process took "a solution in search of a problem" and collected samples laboratories, like searching for a needle in a haystack in Wuhan to purposefully replicate and infect chimeric rat/humans with bat viruses. Whether maliciously or not that is the likely prevailing Truth on why we now have a 5th corona virus we need to guide toward an endemic state. I'm obviously not happy with the state of the world as a computer scientists.
  - acdha 5y ago
    Do you have sources for those claims? As computer scientist I’m certain you should understand the importance of reproducible data and analysis.
    - nyolfen 5y ago
      https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/ https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...
      - acdha 5y ago
        That's an opinion piece by a journalist with a BA in Natural Sciences from 1964, not a virologist or otherwise an expert on any of the topics. His claims have not held up well and the biggest scientist he interviewed (David Baltimore) has backed away from that[1]. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and he had very little other than speculation. I mention all of that because even that wobbly claim was still couched in terms like “did” or “could” while the comment I replied to described it as “likely prevailing truth”. We have no evidence and limited data supporting that hypothesis and a number of people pushing it for political reasons, which is rarely helpful to the scientific process. 1. https://nautil.us/issue/102/hidden-truths/when-a-good-scientist-is-the-wrong-source https://nautil.us/issue/102/hidden-truths/when-a-good-scient...
        nyolfen 5y ago
        until it stops being true that the lead scientist at the wiv pioneered work in & published papers about inserting FCSes -- which other than covid do not exist in coronaviruses -- into bat coronaviruses for gain of function research, you will be facing a very uphill battle. there are so many damning claims in that piece that would be convincing on their own that i suspect you haven't even read it.
        acdha 5y ago
        If you read it more carefully, notice how those claims are much stronger than the supporting evidence. Note how often he says something is possible and then treats it as the most probable explanation without doing the real work of establishing it as such - this is one of the things all of the actual scientists who critiqued this op-ed focused on.
quasarsunnix 5y ago
To be fair this war isn’t over yet and WW2 wasn’t exactly a walk in the park for any allied power.
MontyCarloHall 5y ago
> covid has been a pathetic, fumbling showing, one that clearly reflects institutional decay and foreshadows future decline -- the reverse of the first situation Against a totally novel virus, we developed and widely deployed vaccines with efficacies beyond anyone’s wildest dreams using totally novel technology in the span of a year. Not sure that quite meets my definition of “pathetic.”
- MagnumOpus 5y ago
  Not a totally novel virus. The reason why vaccines were developed within days of isolating the virus is because SARS-COV-2 is not that different from SARS-COV-1 and all the vaccine research efforts carried over. What was pathetic was the federal coordination - hesitation on travel restrictions, CDC response, recommendations against PPE… Lessons that could have been learned even from the 1918 pandemic were painfully ignored.
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    It's not surprising when you look at who was running the federal government at the time. If it wasn't a shitshow, there would have been something wrong in the universe.
    - redis_mlc 5y ago
      You have no idea what you're talking about: - Trump started the travel ban, which the Dems and CCP called racist - Trump funded the vaccines we have now - Fauci said not to wear masks and covered up NIH funding of the Wuhan labs. He's aligned with the Dems and CCP - the CDC goofed up corona tests for 6 weeks Marxists made corona political, thanks to ignorant people like you.
    - sk2020 5y ago
      I don’t think anyone “runs” the federal government. I think offices and processes exist, and I think there’s a semi-hereditary politburo occupying said offices, but I don’t think anyone has much authority.
  - 5y ago
EL_Loco 5y ago
What makes you think the war wasn't won despite pathetic and fumbling actions by leaders and governments? WW2 wasn't a showcase of efficiency and practicality. Ha, my country sent a small contingent (25k) to fight against the Axis in Italy. There were new uniforms made for this expeditionary force. Turns out they chose uniforms that closely matched that of the german uniforms (!). From a book on this subject: "Another problem in the country's preparation was the production of uniforms similar to those of the German Army. 'They even threw rocks at us in Naples thinking we were the invaders'.” I thought the rollout of the vaccines in the time it took, with the effectiveness it had, just went to show how the knowledge and technology of vaccines makes it one of the greatest human achievements, ever.
pfisch 5y ago
The us actually handled the 1918 pandemic even worse than this one. Public authorities largely claimed it wasn't happening and wasn't a big deal as hospitals overflowed and we dug mass graves. They even cancelled public gatherings but pretended it was unrelated to a health crisis. Health responses in the us were completely scattershot, and no one trusted information coming out from the government. Compared to that this response was actually far better and more organized.

wil421 5y ago

WW2 had the Red Scare, Japanese interment camps, and shocking amounts of human experimentation. I would like to hear about the fear mongering and downright lies that were going on during WW2 from someone who was there. I’d bet there was lots of misinformation going around, social media has made those types of things flourish. If you look back at history through rose-tinted glasses everything will appear better than it was.

foxhop 5y ago
Especially once it stops being about race when we say we need to investigate how humans used the Scienctific process took "a solution in search of a problem" and collected samples laboratories, like searching for a needle in a haystack in Wuhan to purposefully replicate and infect chimeric rat/humans with bat viruses. Whether maliciously or not that is the likely prevailing Truth on why we now have a 5th corona virus we need to guide toward an endemic state. I'm obviously not happy with the state of the world as a computer scientists.
- acdha 5y ago
  Do you have sources for those claims? As computer scientist I’m certain you should understand the importance of reproducible data and analysis.
  - nyolfen 5y ago
    https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/ https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...
    - acdha 5y ago
      That's an opinion piece by a journalist with a BA in Natural Sciences from 1964, not a virologist or otherwise an expert on any of the topics. His claims have not held up well and the biggest scientist he interviewed (David Baltimore) has backed away from that[1]. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and he had very little other than speculation. I mention all of that because even that wobbly claim was still couched in terms like “did” or “could” while the comment I replied to described it as “likely prevailing truth”. We have no evidence and limited data supporting that hypothesis and a number of people pushing it for political reasons, which is rarely helpful to the scientific process. 1. https://nautil.us/issue/102/hidden-truths/when-a-good-scientist-is-the-wrong-source https://nautil.us/issue/102/hidden-truths/when-a-good-scient...
      - nyolfen 5y ago
        until it stops being true that the lead scientist at the wiv pioneered work in & published papers about inserting FCSes -- which other than covid do not exist in coronaviruses -- into bat coronaviruses for gain of function research, you will be facing a very uphill battle. there are so many damning claims in that piece that would be convincing on their own that i suspect you haven't even read it.
        acdha 5y ago
        If you read it more carefully, notice how those claims are much stronger than the supporting evidence. Note how often he says something is possible and then treats it as the most probable explanation without doing the real work of establishing it as such - this is one of the things all of the actual scientists who critiqued this op-ed focused on.

quasarsunnix 5y ago

To be fair this war isn’t over yet and WW2 wasn’t exactly a walk in the park for any allied power.

MontyCarloHall 5y ago

> covid has been a pathetic, fumbling showing, one that clearly reflects institutional decay and foreshadows future decline -- the reverse of the first situation Against a totally novel virus, we developed and widely deployed vaccines with efficacies beyond anyone’s wildest dreams using totally novel technology in the span of a year. Not sure that quite meets my definition of “pathetic.”

MagnumOpus 5y ago
Not a totally novel virus. The reason why vaccines were developed within days of isolating the virus is because SARS-COV-2 is not that different from SARS-COV-1 and all the vaccine research efforts carried over. What was pathetic was the federal coordination - hesitation on travel restrictions, CDC response, recommendations against PPE… Lessons that could have been learned even from the 1918 pandemic were painfully ignored.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  It's not surprising when you look at who was running the federal government at the time. If it wasn't a shitshow, there would have been something wrong in the universe.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    You have no idea what you're talking about: - Trump started the travel ban, which the Dems and CCP called racist - Trump funded the vaccines we have now - Fauci said not to wear masks and covered up NIH funding of the Wuhan labs. He's aligned with the Dems and CCP - the CDC goofed up corona tests for 6 weeks Marxists made corona political, thanks to ignorant people like you.
  - sk2020 5y ago
    I don’t think anyone “runs” the federal government. I think offices and processes exist, and I think there’s a semi-hereditary politburo occupying said offices, but I don’t think anyone has much authority.
- 5y ago

EL_Loco 5y ago

What makes you think the war wasn't won despite pathetic and fumbling actions by leaders and governments? WW2 wasn't a showcase of efficiency and practicality. Ha, my country sent a small contingent (25k) to fight against the Axis in Italy. There were new uniforms made for this expeditionary force. Turns out they chose uniforms that closely matched that of the german uniforms (!). From a book on this subject: "Another problem in the country's preparation was the production of uniforms similar to those of the German Army. 'They even threw rocks at us in Naples thinking we were the invaders'.” I thought the rollout of the vaccines in the time it took, with the effectiveness it had, just went to show how the knowledge and technology of vaccines makes it one of the greatest human achievements, ever.

pfisch 5y ago

The us actually handled the 1918 pandemic even worse than this one. Public authorities largely claimed it wasn't happening and wasn't a big deal as hospitals overflowed and we dug mass graves. They even cancelled public gatherings but pretended it was unrelated to a health crisis. Health responses in the us were completely scattershot, and no one trusted information coming out from the government. Compared to that this response was actually far better and more organized.