3 ms·

Nobody wants to see their strategy fail, what annoys people is that we know that even when you do most things right, COVID can infiltrate a home or care facilit

Nobody wants to see their strategy fail, what annoys people is that we know that even when you do most things right, COVID can infiltrate a home or care facility where masks can't be worn all day and that's when things get dangerous. Where tiny COVID hotspots start is basically a matter of luck. A few people acting like idiots is enough to start a local cluster. It's what happens after those local clusters pop up that dictates the real results. Masks are part of the equation, the real frustrating is the lack of vaccination and the lack of masking. Massachusetts has a population of 7 million people, had 2 deaths yesterday and has ~500 people currently hospitalized with COVID. Louisiana, a similar sized state, has a population of 5 million and has nearly 5k people in the hospital and has a 7 day rolling average of 110 deaths. Texas and Florida are both worse than Louisiana. This includes the fact that Cape Cod had a massive 1000+ person outbreak July 4th which resulted in, as far as I'm aware, no deaths and relatively few hospitalizations. Tell me what state you'd rather live in? The whole "But but California was worse at one point schtick isn't going to work when you see Southern states with double as many people per capita dying as the Northern state who've had most of their deaths occur very early in the pandemic when we didn't have treatments or even effective testing.

stolenmerch 5y ago
I'm not sure you can just casually tack on "and the lack of masking". Massachusetts does NOT have a mask mandate and Louisiana DOES - for everyone regardless of vaccination. [1] Mass. has a 1+ vaccination rate of ~75% whereas Louisiana has a rate of ~48%.[2] We can talk about actual mask compliance all day but I'm putting my money on vaccines being the life saver here. [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-are-the-states-with-mask-mandates https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-are-t... [2] https://covidactnow.org/?s=22131139 https://covidactnow.org/?s=22131139
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  It's not mask mandates that matter. It's mask wearing.
  - stolenmerch 5y ago
    Exactly what I meant by "mask compliance". It's tough to measure and can only be done through self-reporting.
  - swader999 5y ago
    Respirator wearing is the only thing that works. Masks not at all for aerosol size particles.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      Some percentage of particles are going get stuck in the mask fibers, thereby lowering the viral dose you get. There is no way it doesn’t help at least some, the question might just be how much.
      - swader999 5y ago
        Masks can't be sealed and all the studies that say they are somewhat effective use mannequins with perfect seals. Real world data from Florida shows schools with and without mandates had the same rates of infection which mirrored the general communities. Stephen Petty, one of the top industrial hygienist in the world does an excellent job of covering all aspects of this: https://rumble.com/c/PettyPodcasts https://rumble.com/c/PettyPodcasts
        actually_a_dog 5y ago
        > Masks can't be sealed and all the studies that say they are somewhat effective use mannequins with perfect seals. That's not true. Here is a lit review that shows you multiple avenues of evidence that show masks are effective: http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf > Real world data from Florida shows schools with and without mandates had the same rates of infection which mirrored the general communities. Again, mask wearing is effective. Mask mandates may not be. There is a difference, and the difference is compliance. If people don't actually wear masks, that's not evidence that masks don't work. http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf
- retrac 5y ago
  The new strains seem to be no more lethal, but more contagious, possibly so contagious they may be able to spread in a population that is fully vaccinated and which is practicing social distancing. People who are vaccinated are unlikely to get sick so vaccination is overwhelmingly the most relevant public health intervention at this point in places where it's already endemic.
benjaminwootton 5y ago
I would personally rather be living in Texas or Florida, but my point is that all of these league tables change on a month by month basis with a limited correlation with restrictions. In a few months a different part of America will be struggling. Vaccination rates yes maybe we can now start pointing fingers as they undoubtedly keep people out of hospital, but Texas and Florida have been unfairly criticised all year.

stolenmerch 5y ago

I'm not sure you can just casually tack on "and the lack of masking". Massachusetts does NOT have a mask mandate and Louisiana DOES - for everyone regardless of vaccination. [1] Mass. has a 1+ vaccination rate of ~75% whereas Louisiana has a rate of ~48%.[2] We can talk about actual mask compliance all day but I'm putting my money on vaccines being the life saver here. [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-are-the-states-with-mask-mandates https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-are-t... [2] https://covidactnow.org/?s=22131139 https://covidactnow.org/?s=22131139

actually_a_dog 5y ago
It's not mask mandates that matter. It's mask wearing.
- stolenmerch 5y ago
  Exactly what I meant by "mask compliance". It's tough to measure and can only be done through self-reporting.
- swader999 5y ago
  Respirator wearing is the only thing that works. Masks not at all for aerosol size particles.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Some percentage of particles are going get stuck in the mask fibers, thereby lowering the viral dose you get. There is no way it doesn’t help at least some, the question might just be how much.
    - swader999 5y ago
      Masks can't be sealed and all the studies that say they are somewhat effective use mannequins with perfect seals. Real world data from Florida shows schools with and without mandates had the same rates of infection which mirrored the general communities. Stephen Petty, one of the top industrial hygienist in the world does an excellent job of covering all aspects of this: https://rumble.com/c/PettyPodcasts https://rumble.com/c/PettyPodcasts
      - actually_a_dog 5y ago
        > Masks can't be sealed and all the studies that say they are somewhat effective use mannequins with perfect seals. That's not true. Here is a lit review that shows you multiple avenues of evidence that show masks are effective: http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf > Real world data from Florida shows schools with and without mandates had the same rates of infection which mirrored the general communities. Again, mask wearing is effective. Mask mandates may not be. There is a difference, and the difference is compliance. If people don't actually wear masks, that's not evidence that masks don't work. http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf
retrac 5y ago
The new strains seem to be no more lethal, but more contagious, possibly so contagious they may be able to spread in a population that is fully vaccinated and which is practicing social distancing. People who are vaccinated are unlikely to get sick so vaccination is overwhelmingly the most relevant public health intervention at this point in places where it's already endemic.

benjaminwootton 5y ago

I would personally rather be living in Texas or Florida, but my point is that all of these league tables change on a month by month basis with a limited correlation with restrictions. In a few months a different part of America will be struggling. Vaccination rates yes maybe we can now start pointing fingers as they undoubtedly keep people out of hospital, but Texas and Florida have been unfairly criticised all year.