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The ideal solution is to "leap-frog" fossil fuels and go straight to renewables. This is an indirect way for developed countries to "pay developing countries fe

The ideal solution is to "leap-frog" fossil fuels and go straight to renewables. This is an indirect way for developed countries to "pay developing countries fees for keeping the rivers and air clean"; those "fees" take the form of massive research and development investment to create renewable tech, and massive subsidies to price it below the fossil fuel alternatives. This doesn't need to be charity either; the maintenance cost of renewables can be much lower than the cost of fossil fuels, so they can end up cheaper over the long-term (obviously dependent on the situation). Hence it can be a straighforward loan/investment to set up this renewable tech. When talking about national policy, there are also factors like reducing dependence on oil imports, which can make renewables even more attractive.

goatlover 5y ago
> The ideal solution is to "leap-frog" fossil fuels and go straight to renewables. This is an indirect way for developed countries to "pay developing countries fees for keeping the rivers and air clean"; those "fees" take the form of massive research and development investment to create renewable tech, and massive subsidies to price it below the fossil fuel alternatives. That takes time. Meanwhile coal plants and concrete manufacture will continue as the developing countries grow. Even China has to operate a lot of coal plants to meet its current energy needs. Global C02 emissions likely won't peak for several years, before starting to decline.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  CO2 emissions need to peak no later than 2025 in order to avoid more than 1.5 degrees of warming, according to the IPCC report.
  - Throwaway197401 5y ago
    They wont. 1.5 degree warming is not major problem we can't fairly easily solve the consequences of.
ThomPete 5y ago
you cant leapfrog fossil fuels. Wind and solar require backup from either gas, oil, coal or nuclear or it wont be able to provide energy all the time. All you are doing is creating a much more expensive system and you are not getting rid of fossil fuel. Furthermore do you knoe how much fossil fuels goes into building windmills and solar cells? Both from a material and manufacturing perspective. We are not getting of fossil fuels anytime soon. https://spectrum.ieee.org/to-get-wind-power-you-need-oil?fbclid=IwAR14fH2-d17QvtQ9gjs89pxsX16JBKpP6mmuvjokzGiM4Wxh1_CJE0aXY0k https://spectrum.ieee.org/to-get-wind-power-you-need-oil?fbc...
- extropy 5y ago
  The electricity is also generally unreliable in developing countries, so it might be just good enough.
  - cool_dude85 5y ago
    Yet, it's fairly reliable in most developed countries. So how will a developing country, well, develop, if it can't build a consistent, reliable power grid?
    - checker 5y ago
      The rich countries should emulate China's Belt and Road initiative, but instead of building ports and highways they should build electric grids and renewables in developing nations. Ideally without predatory balloon financing that results in sticky situations down the line.
      - ThomPete 5y ago
        electric grid based on renewables require fossil fuels to be both made and as backup to be reliable. Electricity is not going to solve the 80% of the energy needs, its not going to allow them to do manufacturing and agriculture at large scale either. Its the wrong approach to turn developing nations into developed nations. I know most people dont like to hear it but that is the reality.

goatlover 5y ago

> The ideal solution is to "leap-frog" fossil fuels and go straight to renewables. This is an indirect way for developed countries to "pay developing countries fees for keeping the rivers and air clean"; those "fees" take the form of massive research and development investment to create renewable tech, and massive subsidies to price it below the fossil fuel alternatives. That takes time. Meanwhile coal plants and concrete manufacture will continue as the developing countries grow. Even China has to operate a lot of coal plants to meet its current energy needs. Global C02 emissions likely won't peak for several years, before starting to decline.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
CO2 emissions need to peak no later than 2025 in order to avoid more than 1.5 degrees of warming, according to the IPCC report.
- Throwaway197401 5y ago
  They wont. 1.5 degree warming is not major problem we can't fairly easily solve the consequences of.

ThomPete 5y ago

you cant leapfrog fossil fuels. Wind and solar require backup from either gas, oil, coal or nuclear or it wont be able to provide energy all the time. All you are doing is creating a much more expensive system and you are not getting rid of fossil fuel. Furthermore do you knoe how much fossil fuels goes into building windmills and solar cells? Both from a material and manufacturing perspective. We are not getting of fossil fuels anytime soon. https://spectrum.ieee.org/to-get-wind-power-you-need-oil?fbclid=IwAR14fH2-d17QvtQ9gjs89pxsX16JBKpP6mmuvjokzGiM4Wxh1_CJE0aXY0k https://spectrum.ieee.org/to-get-wind-power-you-need-oil?fbc...

extropy 5y ago
The electricity is also generally unreliable in developing countries, so it might be just good enough.
- cool_dude85 5y ago
  Yet, it's fairly reliable in most developed countries. So how will a developing country, well, develop, if it can't build a consistent, reliable power grid?
  - checker 5y ago
    The rich countries should emulate China's Belt and Road initiative, but instead of building ports and highways they should build electric grids and renewables in developing nations. Ideally without predatory balloon financing that results in sticky situations down the line.
    - ThomPete 5y ago
      electric grid based on renewables require fossil fuels to be both made and as backup to be reliable. Electricity is not going to solve the 80% of the energy needs, its not going to allow them to do manufacturing and agriculture at large scale either. Its the wrong approach to turn developing nations into developed nations. I know most people dont like to hear it but that is the reality.