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The tech industry in Australia has for some time existed in an impossibly hostile climate, with onerous tasks to betray their own users able to be handed out to

The tech industry in Australia has for some time existed in an impossibly hostile climate, with onerous tasks to betray their own users able to be handed out to individuals at any time, with virtually no oversight. [1] This has all happened under the auspices of the most overtly corrupt and authoritarian government we’ve had in my lifetime, within four years. If I had the option, I’d pack up and move, but having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. [2] Combining this with the political apathy of nearly everyone here that I know, the current vilification of protestors (not entirely wrongly given the circumstances), and the utter spinelessness and complicity of the “opposition”, I don’t see a future for my country that doesn’t involve violent revolution (we’ve tried it before [3]) or tyranny. But it gets better: the tech industry is not only under attack, they’re complicit. Beyond even the ordinary run-of-the-mill scumbaggery we see from tech companies, a number have recently formed the Tech Council of Australia [4], aiming to make Australia a startup capital of the world. Scroll down that page and you’ll see a list of member corporations, several of which sent opposition to the AABill when consultation was open. Now, apparently, they’ve decided that it’s too hard to beat ‘em, so they’ll join ’em. [1] https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r6195_aspassed/toc_pdf/18204b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... [2] https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Rebellion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Rebellion [4] https://techcouncil.com.au https://techcouncil.com.au

bjarneh 5y ago
> but having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. I've seen "Border Control Australia", and if leaving the country is anywhere near as difficult as entering it, you're in for a rough time. "Do you have dirt from another country under your shoes?" /s
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Reading the link, it appears that travel abroad is currently restricted due to COVID. Ordinarily, I don't believe Australia practices any meaningful exit controls beyond the usual: visa overstays, warrants. Certainly not capriciously based on your feelings regarding the current administration. In fact, I believe it's automated.
  - skhr0680 5y ago
    I remember having to do a full on interview at the airport to leave Australia. That didn’t seem normal to me
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      I assume they suspected you of something or your name matched a person of interest. After all, while the US has no formal interview to leave, if you're trying to do so by air, the manifest is forwarded to the FBI and DHS well in advance of departure. If they want to chit-chat, they'll be waiting for you at the gate. I've seen people yanked off the jet bridge haha. If you're trying to do so over the land border with Canada, I believe the Canadians will notify the Americans on your way over, and happily hold onto you for a hot minute. You'll always have to answer to an authority when attempting to leave a country. However, ordinarily, neither AU, US nor CA will stop you from exiting. Now re-entry is another matter.
- kleiba 5y ago
  Australia is nuts when it comes to overprotecting their bio-integrity. Even withing Australia, you're not allowed to bring an apple when you're crossing a state border.
  - nineteen999 5y ago
    There are extremely good reasons for that: https://www.agriculture.gov.au/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/fruit-flies https://www.agriculture.gov.au/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/fr...
    - kleiba 5y ago
      There's a disposal bin for fruit a stone's throw away from the border. And I bet you that the apples you can buy in, say, Victoria, are imported from the same place as the ones you can buy in South Australia.
  - tallanvor 5y ago
    That's not just Australia. You'll encounter similar rules going to Hawaii, and even to California - although I think they have a harder time due to the number of land crossings.
    - int_19h 5y ago
      Another example, specifically about apples even. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maggot_Quarantine_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maggot_Quarantine_Area
Teever 5y ago
Has the government of Australia given any rational for banning Australians from leaving? What is the public discourse like over this? I also heard that Australia was making it very difficult for Australians who were abroad prior to COVID from coming back, is that true? Has that changed much? Again, does the government give a rational for this decision? And the discourse? I think that Australia and NZ were right to lock down hard and stamp out COVID but I'm a bit baffled by the fact that it has managed to get in a few times and more specifically how it has managed to get in. It seems to be that once if you're an island the size of Australia and you've eliminated domestic transmission the simple solution is to route all international flights to an airport in remote location (not one in a large city) where absolutely everyone involved in the process be they passangers, crew or quarantine staff must stay for two weeks with zero exceptions. If you did that then you could easily repatriate Australians living abroad.
- danuker 5y ago
  > where absolutely everyone involved [...] must stay for two weeks with zero exceptions. You might be infecting some more people during those two weeks, which means you'd have to prolong the quarantine.
- ccakes 5y ago
  > I also heard that Australia was making it very difficult for Australians who were abroad prior to COVID from coming back, is that true? Has that changed much? As an Australian living abroad - nope, nothing has changed. It's near impossible for us to get back although at this point, why would I want to.. > And the discourse? Australians overseas are distraught with many being forced to watch friends and family go through tragedy from afar. The ones living at home don't seem to give a crap at all - "you left, serves you right" isn't an uncommon sentiment. It's been discussed in other posts recently on HN about Australia - life there is pretty good and Australians are generally laid back to a fault. If a problem doesn't affect an individual on a personal level, it doesn't exist. </rant>
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    Because you might have family you love and care about living there who you'd want to see? Feeling a bit East and West Berlin right now.
rdevsrex 5y ago
I wonder if any South Africans in Australia are wishing they had stayed. Pick your poison right?
antihero 5y ago
Can you not leave by boat? I heard about some guy who nearly escaped on a jet-ski and would have succeeded if not being actively pursued by the police?
- SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
  In theory yes, but there is a whole lot of empty ocean in all directions but the north (New Zealand nonwithstanding), and that happens to be an intensely monitored region of the globe due to Australia's desire to prevent refugee arrivals by boat. "Stop the boats" is Australia's "build the wall". Whether the border force will put any effort into apprehending a boat that's leaving, rather than entering, I can't say, however it's hard to slip under the radar (or sonar, as the case may be). https://osb.homeaffairs.gov.au/ https://osb.homeaffairs.gov.au/
hmwhy 5y ago
I agree with most of your points, and I want the current government gone, but would you mind elaborating on the following? > ... but having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. [2] > [2] https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia It seems like a bit of a disingenuous stretch to push your points across.
voakbasda 5y ago
In all seriousness, do you think the Australian citizens stand a chance of succeeding at a violent Revolution, when your citizens have largely surrendered [0] the necessary freedom to bear arms capable of fighting said civil war? Do you think that act of civil disarmament emboldened the current rise of totalitarian authoritarianism? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia
- justinclift 5y ago
  There doesn't really seem to be any countries in the world which let their citizens arm themselves in ways which would enable meaningful revolution. Not even the US - which famously has guns all over - would have any kind of chance against their own military. Like... "people with guns" vs "stand off artillery, over the horizon warfare, etc".
  - mixedCase 5y ago
    > Not even the US - which famously has guns all over - would have any kind of chance against their own military That is correct, if the objective is to glass the entire place. The US military is the mightiest force in the world when it comes to that. As far as quelling armed rebellions among the citizenry goes, I think just pointing to this months' news should suffice in lieu of an argument?
    - justinclift 5y ago
      > I think just pointing to this months' news should suffice in lieu of an argument? Thankfully, I'm not from the US. Was there there really an armed rebellion there?
      - mixedCase 5y ago
        Neither am I, I was referring to Afghanistan.
        5y ago
int_19h 5y ago
This is truly a whole new level. I can understand countries that lock their borders down to arrivals, but not letting your own citizens depart as a general policy? I can't even think of any country other than North Korea that still has exit visas for citizens, which is basically what this is.
- rstuart4133 5y ago
  Yeah, it is a whole new level. The level was created by the 350,000 Australians living overseas noticing Australia had almost no covid while all the infections were going through the roof everywhere else. Understandably, they all wanted to come home. Sadly, they couldn't because of three reasons. The first is the airline industry collapsed, and so flights went from $3K to $30k each - or more, and there was a very limited number. The second is we don't have the quarantine capacity. The third is every so often quarantine system leaks, which can cost billions. They demanded the government fly them home for free, they said they the government had to do it because they had a duty to protect all Australians, even ones who earlier on decided not to fly home when covid started, and to bolster their case they went to the media with on sob stories about needing to see their dying long lost cousin or whatever. No one came out out it smelling like a rose. Some came out of it dead. And understandably, no one wanted a repeat performance. Other solutions, like insisting they had an open return ticket were kiboshed by the travel industry not honouring return tickets or anything else. Which is how we ended up with the current ham fisted approach at people needing visa's to leave Australia. It's not a good look I agree, but fortunately every politician is very aware of how unpopular it will be when the country open up after the vaccinations are done. Australian's like their travel. The policy will be dropped like a hot potato as soon as the majority political sentiment becomes "it's OK to open up". The vaccination program has been a monumental clusterfuck so it's progressing god awfully slowly, but nonetheless it's looking like we will be in that position by Xmas.
godmode2019 5y ago
As a near neighbour I can neither confirm or deny my support for the cause. However, its baffling to me normal people are so compliant in the clear authoritarianism. Being in full lockdown where I'm not allowed to go outside and all stores are closed and food stocks are so low at the supermarket their is no point in waiting an hour in line. Speak out out has very real social and career consequences you are reminded daily on the media. The only place to get information from your community, is Facebook comment section news articles, but if you know programming you can clearly see these posts are filtered and highly curated and any post that has slight disagreement with the governments actions is quickly corrected by government employed commentors paid 95k to tackle disinformation. People are lead to believe if they just follow along and be good they will get their freedoms back. These people are right. You should address your disdain forwards rule breakers and not those imposing the rules. Because that would be incitement. I'm thankful I am a high wage earner and can work from home and don't have to rely on government rations ($600) like most people. I believe we are witnessing history, in the fog. And only from the future does everything make sense. In my personal opinion I believe we are preparing for war with *insert enemy here* and covid was a dress rehearsal for real biological war. With the USA leaving Afghanistan the "pivot to pacific" is almost complete.
Rd6n6 5y ago
> having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. The reference you linked was a national travel restriction related to Covid, not a case of preventing dissidents from leaving as some form of punishment. Maybe you meant to link a different article?

bjarneh 5y ago

> but having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. I've seen "Border Control Australia", and if leaving the country is anywhere near as difficult as entering it, you're in for a rough time. "Do you have dirt from another country under your shoes?" /s

arcticbull 5y ago
Reading the link, it appears that travel abroad is currently restricted due to COVID. Ordinarily, I don't believe Australia practices any meaningful exit controls beyond the usual: visa overstays, warrants. Certainly not capriciously based on your feelings regarding the current administration. In fact, I believe it's automated.
- skhr0680 5y ago
  I remember having to do a full on interview at the airport to leave Australia. That didn’t seem normal to me
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    I assume they suspected you of something or your name matched a person of interest. After all, while the US has no formal interview to leave, if you're trying to do so by air, the manifest is forwarded to the FBI and DHS well in advance of departure. If they want to chit-chat, they'll be waiting for you at the gate. I've seen people yanked off the jet bridge haha. If you're trying to do so over the land border with Canada, I believe the Canadians will notify the Americans on your way over, and happily hold onto you for a hot minute. You'll always have to answer to an authority when attempting to leave a country. However, ordinarily, neither AU, US nor CA will stop you from exiting. Now re-entry is another matter.
kleiba 5y ago
Australia is nuts when it comes to overprotecting their bio-integrity. Even withing Australia, you're not allowed to bring an apple when you're crossing a state border.
- nineteen999 5y ago
  There are extremely good reasons for that: https://www.agriculture.gov.au/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/fruit-flies https://www.agriculture.gov.au/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/fr...
  - kleiba 5y ago
    There's a disposal bin for fruit a stone's throw away from the border. And I bet you that the apples you can buy in, say, Victoria, are imported from the same place as the ones you can buy in South Australia.
- tallanvor 5y ago
  That's not just Australia. You'll encounter similar rules going to Hawaii, and even to California - although I think they have a harder time due to the number of land crossings.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    Another example, specifically about apples even. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maggot_Quarantine_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maggot_Quarantine_Area

Teever 5y ago

Has the government of Australia given any rational for banning Australians from leaving? What is the public discourse like over this? I also heard that Australia was making it very difficult for Australians who were abroad prior to COVID from coming back, is that true? Has that changed much? Again, does the government give a rational for this decision? And the discourse? I think that Australia and NZ were right to lock down hard and stamp out COVID but I'm a bit baffled by the fact that it has managed to get in a few times and more specifically how it has managed to get in. It seems to be that once if you're an island the size of Australia and you've eliminated domestic transmission the simple solution is to route all international flights to an airport in remote location (not one in a large city) where absolutely everyone involved in the process be they passangers, crew or quarantine staff must stay for two weeks with zero exceptions. If you did that then you could easily repatriate Australians living abroad.

danuker 5y ago
> where absolutely everyone involved [...] must stay for two weeks with zero exceptions. You might be infecting some more people during those two weeks, which means you'd have to prolong the quarantine.
ccakes 5y ago
> I also heard that Australia was making it very difficult for Australians who were abroad prior to COVID from coming back, is that true? Has that changed much? As an Australian living abroad - nope, nothing has changed. It's near impossible for us to get back although at this point, why would I want to.. > And the discourse? Australians overseas are distraught with many being forced to watch friends and family go through tragedy from afar. The ones living at home don't seem to give a crap at all - "you left, serves you right" isn't an uncommon sentiment. It's been discussed in other posts recently on HN about Australia - life there is pretty good and Australians are generally laid back to a fault. If a problem doesn't affect an individual on a personal level, it doesn't exist. </rant>
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Because you might have family you love and care about living there who you'd want to see? Feeling a bit East and West Berlin right now.

rdevsrex 5y ago

I wonder if any South Africans in Australia are wishing they had stayed. Pick your poison right?

antihero 5y ago

Can you not leave by boat? I heard about some guy who nearly escaped on a jet-ski and would have succeeded if not being actively pursued by the police?

SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
In theory yes, but there is a whole lot of empty ocean in all directions but the north (New Zealand nonwithstanding), and that happens to be an intensely monitored region of the globe due to Australia's desire to prevent refugee arrivals by boat. "Stop the boats" is Australia's "build the wall". Whether the border force will put any effort into apprehending a boat that's leaving, rather than entering, I can't say, however it's hard to slip under the radar (or sonar, as the case may be). https://osb.homeaffairs.gov.au/ https://osb.homeaffairs.gov.au/

hmwhy 5y ago

I agree with most of your points, and I want the current government gone, but would you mind elaborating on the following? > ... but having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. [2] > [2] https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia It seems like a bit of a disingenuous stretch to push your points across.

voakbasda 5y ago

In all seriousness, do you think the Australian citizens stand a chance of succeeding at a violent Revolution, when your citizens have largely surrendered [0] the necessary freedom to bear arms capable of fighting said civil war? Do you think that act of civil disarmament emboldened the current rise of totalitarian authoritarianism? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia

justinclift 5y ago
There doesn't really seem to be any countries in the world which let their citizens arm themselves in ways which would enable meaningful revolution. Not even the US - which famously has guns all over - would have any kind of chance against their own military. Like... "people with guns" vs "stand off artillery, over the horizon warfare, etc".
- mixedCase 5y ago
  > Not even the US - which famously has guns all over - would have any kind of chance against their own military That is correct, if the objective is to glass the entire place. The US military is the mightiest force in the world when it comes to that. As far as quelling armed rebellions among the citizenry goes, I think just pointing to this months' news should suffice in lieu of an argument?
  - justinclift 5y ago
    > I think just pointing to this months' news should suffice in lieu of an argument? Thankfully, I'm not from the US. Was there there really an armed rebellion there?
    - mixedCase 5y ago
      Neither am I, I was referring to Afghanistan.
      - 5y ago

int_19h 5y ago

This is truly a whole new level. I can understand countries that lock their borders down to arrivals, but not letting your own citizens depart as a general policy? I can't even think of any country other than North Korea that still has exit visas for citizens, which is basically what this is.

rstuart4133 5y ago
Yeah, it is a whole new level. The level was created by the 350,000 Australians living overseas noticing Australia had almost no covid while all the infections were going through the roof everywhere else. Understandably, they all wanted to come home. Sadly, they couldn't because of three reasons. The first is the airline industry collapsed, and so flights went from $3K to $30k each - or more, and there was a very limited number. The second is we don't have the quarantine capacity. The third is every so often quarantine system leaks, which can cost billions. They demanded the government fly them home for free, they said they the government had to do it because they had a duty to protect all Australians, even ones who earlier on decided not to fly home when covid started, and to bolster their case they went to the media with on sob stories about needing to see their dying long lost cousin or whatever. No one came out out it smelling like a rose. Some came out of it dead. And understandably, no one wanted a repeat performance. Other solutions, like insisting they had an open return ticket were kiboshed by the travel industry not honouring return tickets or anything else. Which is how we ended up with the current ham fisted approach at people needing visa's to leave Australia. It's not a good look I agree, but fortunately every politician is very aware of how unpopular it will be when the country open up after the vaccinations are done. Australian's like their travel. The policy will be dropped like a hot potato as soon as the majority political sentiment becomes "it's OK to open up". The vaccination program has been a monumental clusterfuck so it's progressing god awfully slowly, but nonetheless it's looking like we will be in that position by Xmas.

godmode2019 5y ago

As a near neighbour I can neither confirm or deny my support for the cause. However, its baffling to me normal people are so compliant in the clear authoritarianism. Being in full lockdown where I'm not allowed to go outside and all stores are closed and food stocks are so low at the supermarket their is no point in waiting an hour in line. Speak out out has very real social and career consequences you are reminded daily on the media. The only place to get information from your community, is Facebook comment section news articles, but if you know programming you can clearly see these posts are filtered and highly curated and any post that has slight disagreement with the governments actions is quickly corrected by government employed commentors paid 95k to tackle disinformation. People are lead to believe if they just follow along and be good they will get their freedoms back. These people are right. You should address your disdain forwards rule breakers and not those imposing the rules. Because that would be incitement. I'm thankful I am a high wage earner and can work from home and don't have to rely on government rations ($600) like most people. I believe we are witnessing history, in the fog. And only from the future does everything make sense. In my personal opinion I believe we are preparing for war with *insert enemy here* and covid was a dress rehearsal for real biological war. With the USA leaving Afghanistan the "pivot to pacific" is almost complete.

Rd6n6 5y ago

> having written this and other anti-government sentiment, it’s entirely possible that they stop me at the border. The reference you linked was a national travel restriction related to Covid, not a case of preventing dissidents from leaving as some form of punishment. Maybe you meant to link a different article?