4 ms·

You are a name caller. There are downsides to getting the vaccine. I know people who were down and out with side effects to the vaccine for a week. If this is a

by babesh 5y ago

You are a name caller. There are downsides to getting the vaccine. I know people who were down and out with side effects to the vaccine for a week. If this is accurate, then people who had covid are 18x protected vs those vaccinated. Maybe we should introduce a covid card and only let those with them into restaurants. After all, it is likely that the combination of the reopening and breakthrough caused the spike.

Uberphallus 5y ago
> You are a name caller. No, he's not. He's calling out antivax nonsense from an "I'm not an antivaxxer but". > There are downsides to getting the vaccine. Sure. > I know people who were down and out with side effects to the vaccine for a week. That's widely documented [0], no need to share anecdotal data. > If this is accurate, then people who had covid are 18x protected vs those vaccinated. The paper says 13x (though 95% CI goes up to 8-21x), where's your 18x coming from? The most protected group is, unsurprisingly, infected and single dose vaccinated (6-7x over just infected). It's also important to notice these multipliers have a different meaning when talking about rates: 95% vs 99% is 5x, yet both are excellent Now since you seem to dig immunity from infection vs immunity from the vaccine, it would only be honest to compare side effects from both of them [1] and their relative cost, and the global cost for everybody else: roughly $30 for vaccination vs ~$6000 [2] times 13 days [3] = ~$78,000 per ICU stay on average (and that's 2005 dollars as per [2]). I only see rational hesitancy towards <12 year old population. For the rest, mRNA vaccines are better than waiting for the bug to catch you on literally all metrics, often with multiple orders of magnitude. > Maybe we should introduce a covid card and only let those with them into restaurants. Not sure only letting 12% of the population into restaurants is gonna help the sector antivaxxers are so worried about. > After all, it is likely that the combination of the reopening and breakthrough caused the spike. It's just the reopening despite the vaccination. If anything, vaccinated people feeling overconfident about their immunity during the reopening played a role. [0] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/safety-and-side-effects/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavir... [1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-long-covid/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7800750_Daily_cost_of_an_intensive_care_unit_day_The_contribution_of_mechanical_ventilation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7800750_Daily_cost_... [3] https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06371-6 https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s128...
- babesh 5y ago
  I stand by my statement about name calling. The person who has had covid is less likely to spread it to others than someone with just the vaccine. I see little point in forcing them to take the vaccine much less enforce a vaccine mandate. If you want a mandate it should be natural immunity or vaccine or mask or far better just tests and masks since anyone can still catch and spread it. You are right about 13x. I just misread that (reading on my iPhone). I was not concerned with cost so I am not going to bother to address that.
  - Elinvynia 5y ago
    Name calling is okay, if true. If someone is an anti-vaxxer, not calling them such only supports that extremely harmful movement. Preventing calling them anti-vaxxes is literally censorship, and likely something that you are against.

by babesh 5y ago

Uberphallus 5y ago

> You are a name caller. No, he's not. He's calling out antivax nonsense from an "I'm not an antivaxxer but". > There are downsides to getting the vaccine. Sure. > I know people who were down and out with side effects to the vaccine for a week. That's widely documented [0], no need to share anecdotal data. > If this is accurate, then people who had covid are 18x protected vs those vaccinated. The paper says 13x (though 95% CI goes up to 8-21x), where's your 18x coming from? The most protected group is, unsurprisingly, infected and single dose vaccinated (6-7x over just infected). It's also important to notice these multipliers have a different meaning when talking about rates: 95% vs 99% is 5x, yet both are excellent Now since you seem to dig immunity from infection vs immunity from the vaccine, it would only be honest to compare side effects from both of them [1] and their relative cost, and the global cost for everybody else: roughly $30 for vaccination vs ~$6000 [2] times 13 days [3] = ~$78,000 per ICU stay on average (and that's 2005 dollars as per [2]). I only see rational hesitancy towards <12 year old population. For the rest, mRNA vaccines are better than waiting for the bug to catch you on literally all metrics, often with multiple orders of magnitude. > Maybe we should introduce a covid card and only let those with them into restaurants. Not sure only letting 12% of the population into restaurants is gonna help the sector antivaxxers are so worried about. > After all, it is likely that the combination of the reopening and breakthrough caused the spike. It's just the reopening despite the vaccination. If anything, vaccinated people feeling overconfident about their immunity during the reopening played a role. [0] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/safety-and-side-effects/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavir... [1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-long-covid/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7800750_Daily_cost_of_an_intensive_care_unit_day_The_contribution_of_mechanical_ventilation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7800750_Daily_cost_... [3] https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06371-6 https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s128...

babesh 5y ago
I stand by my statement about name calling. The person who has had covid is less likely to spread it to others than someone with just the vaccine. I see little point in forcing them to take the vaccine much less enforce a vaccine mandate. If you want a mandate it should be natural immunity or vaccine or mask or far better just tests and masks since anyone can still catch and spread it. You are right about 13x. I just misread that (reading on my iPhone). I was not concerned with cost so I am not going to bother to address that.
- Elinvynia 5y ago
  Name calling is okay, if true. If someone is an anti-vaxxer, not calling them such only supports that extremely harmful movement. Preventing calling them anti-vaxxes is literally censorship, and likely something that you are against.