12 ms·

A different question. As someone who had to recover from Achilles tear and had to rebuild an atrophied calf muscle. Why don’t we just give anabolic steroids to

by nikita 5y ago

A different question. As someone who had to recover from Achilles tear and had to rebuild an atrophied calf muscle. Why don’t we just give anabolic steroids to people if their muscles atrophied after wearing a cast?

woleium 5y ago
or hgh
- bitexploder 5y ago
  Both are good. I think HGH is the more interesting compound for soft tissue injuries (ligaments and such). I do BJJ and I will for sure use both to recover any major injury I get after having researched it and seen how pro BJJ folks do it with really good results. E: I should add both compounds can have severe side effects. Testosterone cycles can destroy your natural test production and HGH can have undesirable side effects. It makes things grow indiscriminately so you really have to do it with good medical advice. There are ways to prevent and manage the negative side effects.
  - icegreentea2 5y ago
    Ya. And it's probably worth pointing out that in the context of a recovery (say after a cast) that taking steriods and/or HGH will still require physical rehab, with even more doctor supervision. While it would probably lower the median time to "full recovery", it would probably also have significantly worse worst case outcomes, and still require significant work from the patient. Edit: Oh and specifically for steroids - one of the things that -can- (dunno how frequent really) happen is that your muscle strength growth outgrows your connective tissue (such as your Achilles tendon) growth rate and you end up with more connective tissue damage. Maxing out your muscle growth rate might be the best strategy, especially when recovering from connective tissue damage.
    - bitexploder 5y ago
      Yeah, it is no panacea for sure. For me, I have been lifting for years, doing BJJ for years. Ran for almost two decades. I consider myself in pretty good shape for a random dude on the street. It all takes work. Especially with Rehab you really have to put in the rehab work to direct the healing and if you went with pharmaceuticals like we are discussing that becomes extra important. But I think at low, therapeutic dosage it is all really safe. On a 3 month cycle during injury recovery you are unlikely to grow muscle quickly enough to do any real damage either.
  - cgh 5y ago
    Look into BPC-157.
- leroy_masochist 5y ago
  BPC and TB are highly synergistic with HGH, so it's not really an either/or. Sermorelin+ipamorelin at night (HGH secretogogues) make the BPC/TB more effective and have the added nice effect of driving some fat loss/workout recovery, and are not crazy expensive like HGH is.
justinator 5y ago
Because your muscles, even in an atrophied state, will build back faster than the Achilles tear can heal (close) to 100%. Steroids don't make connective tissue grow faster/better/stronger.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  not only that, but I remember reading while looking up stuff after an ACL tear that steroids would actually be counterproductive, in that the faster than expected growth of muscle would put more strain on the healing connective tissue and possibly cause reinjury.
cgh 5y ago
In men, there are complications with your body’s natural testosterone production. If you inject test (the most basic anabolic steroid) then in order to maintain a sort of homeostasis, your body will lower its natural test production. The same goes for any other anabolic steroid, as they are all test derivatives. As a result, when you end your cycle, your body needs to restart its natural test production. There can be a delay while this happens and it leads to unpleasant, though temporary, side effects, like weight gain and a loss of sexual appetite. This can be mitigated somewhat by taking estrogen regulators such as Clomid, which is a prescription drug for women. Anyway, the upshot of all this is injecting steroids in men is sort of complicated. For your rehab scenario, your doctor would have to monitor your test and estrogen levels as you end your cycle. For moderate cycles like with your calf rehab, the dangers are vastly overblown in the media, but the short-term side effects can be bothersome. Note that women don’t face these issues and indeed women can take convenient oral steroids like eg Winstrol without having to inject test to compensate for their natural production getting shut down, because they hardly have any natural production to begin with. Indeed, ethics aside, the arguments for women to do a very moderate cycle for your rehab scenario or just athletic performance are pretty strong.
- gruez 5y ago
  >As a result, when you end your cycle, your body needs to restart its natural test production. There can be a delay while this happens and it leads to unpleasant, though temporary, side effects, like weight gain and a loss of sexual appetite. Why not just slowly taper it off?
  - wisty 5y ago
    Test is injected into muscles, usually once every 2-4 weeks. It can't be taken orally. This makes dosage control difficult. The long half-life also means that your body's control systems are slow to act (if they reacted quickly then you'd risk ending up with too much, and be unable to get rid of it).
    - ggreer 5y ago
      There are plenty of other anabolic steroids. Some are oral, and many have the same primary effect with fewer side effects. There's even a new class of drugs that can work for women.[1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_receptor_modulator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_receptor_mo...
vimy 5y ago
Or BPC 157.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  Has anyone here used it? Or TB-500? I have a tendon/pulley injury that doesn't seem to want to heal and I've been researching it. At least one relevant study. There is one Dr. in my area (a gyno of all things) that has a website promoting his practice using it. So has at least a sheen of professionalism. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21030672/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21030672/
  - leksak 5y ago
    Climber? I've had three pulley injuries and returned to sport. What, specifically, have you been doing to rehab it?
    - dillondoyle 5y ago
      yup!! hang boarding, micro needling, some finger/arm exercises from PT. i climbed seriously as a kid until like 22 ish. then didn't for 7 ish years. it's now close to 2 years back (sep 24). I think that's the main issue, my skill/strength is higher than my fingers. Though I'm still decently strong just have pain/days I can't do much and fingers are weak compared to what I used to have. what about you? I've been thinking of seeing if this local Dr. has any ideas, it sounds like you have to get the peptides injected near the injury which freaks me out. Don't mess with my fingers!
      - slowmotiony 5y ago
        I did it and it worked wonders for my shoulder injury. Not giving you medical advice, but it's easy and not expensive so I would go for it if i were you. And subcutaneous injections are so easy you dont even feel them, I pin daily every morning with my coffee and it takes me 20 seconds using a super-slim insulin needle.
      - harimau777 5y ago
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Anabolic steroids must be administered very carefully because they are part of a neuroendocrine feedback system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary%E2%80%93gonadal_axis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary... The hypothalamus releases GnRH which tells the hypophysis to stimulate the testicles. The hypophysis releases LH which tells the testicles to release testosterone. If there's too much testosterone, the GnRH release of the hypothalamus is inhibited. If there's too little, it is stimulated. Through this mechanism, testosterone levels are regulated. Introducing exogenous testosterone can seriously screw with this system. The extra testosterone causes negative feedback on GnRH and LH, decreasing or stopping natural testosterone production: hypogonadism. Physical therapy does not have these risks and is effective at recovering functionality. Perhaps a specialist would use anabolic steroids in case physical therapy alone isn't enough.
skylanh 5y ago
There are a number of responses that don't make me comfortable. The clearest reasoning for why anabolic or androgenic steroids' are NOT given in the context for recovery strength or function in a professional medical setting are that: - it has unintended consequences that can be severe - it has unintended consequences that can be long-lasting - the expected consequences of use are more harmful than the regular recovery - and that these can be quite harmful, enough that the use of AAS isn't necessary. and finally the primary goal post surgical: > One of the most important considerations in selecting operative versus nonoperative treatment is the risk of rerupture. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7031433/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7031433/ Quite a few responses are getting into details of AAS use that isn't quite correct based on my understandings.
uCantCauseUCant 5y ago
Because steroids attack the bone? And suppress the imune system and everything is connected with everything..
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Taylor_OD 5y ago
We could. And it would be about as safe as much medicine that we use today. But like many drugs that could be useful... steroids === bad.

by nikita 5y ago

woleium 5y ago

or hgh

bitexploder 5y ago
Both are good. I think HGH is the more interesting compound for soft tissue injuries (ligaments and such). I do BJJ and I will for sure use both to recover any major injury I get after having researched it and seen how pro BJJ folks do it with really good results. E: I should add both compounds can have severe side effects. Testosterone cycles can destroy your natural test production and HGH can have undesirable side effects. It makes things grow indiscriminately so you really have to do it with good medical advice. There are ways to prevent and manage the negative side effects.
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  Ya. And it's probably worth pointing out that in the context of a recovery (say after a cast) that taking steriods and/or HGH will still require physical rehab, with even more doctor supervision. While it would probably lower the median time to "full recovery", it would probably also have significantly worse worst case outcomes, and still require significant work from the patient. Edit: Oh and specifically for steroids - one of the things that -can- (dunno how frequent really) happen is that your muscle strength growth outgrows your connective tissue (such as your Achilles tendon) growth rate and you end up with more connective tissue damage. Maxing out your muscle growth rate might be the best strategy, especially when recovering from connective tissue damage.
  - bitexploder 5y ago
    Yeah, it is no panacea for sure. For me, I have been lifting for years, doing BJJ for years. Ran for almost two decades. I consider myself in pretty good shape for a random dude on the street. It all takes work. Especially with Rehab you really have to put in the rehab work to direct the healing and if you went with pharmaceuticals like we are discussing that becomes extra important. But I think at low, therapeutic dosage it is all really safe. On a 3 month cycle during injury recovery you are unlikely to grow muscle quickly enough to do any real damage either.
- cgh 5y ago
  Look into BPC-157.
leroy_masochist 5y ago
BPC and TB are highly synergistic with HGH, so it's not really an either/or. Sermorelin+ipamorelin at night (HGH secretogogues) make the BPC/TB more effective and have the added nice effect of driving some fat loss/workout recovery, and are not crazy expensive like HGH is.

justinator 5y ago

Because your muscles, even in an atrophied state, will build back faster than the Achilles tear can heal (close) to 100%. Steroids don't make connective tissue grow faster/better/stronger.

bobthepanda 5y ago
not only that, but I remember reading while looking up stuff after an ACL tear that steroids would actually be counterproductive, in that the faster than expected growth of muscle would put more strain on the healing connective tissue and possibly cause reinjury.

cgh 5y ago

In men, there are complications with your body’s natural testosterone production. If you inject test (the most basic anabolic steroid) then in order to maintain a sort of homeostasis, your body will lower its natural test production. The same goes for any other anabolic steroid, as they are all test derivatives. As a result, when you end your cycle, your body needs to restart its natural test production. There can be a delay while this happens and it leads to unpleasant, though temporary, side effects, like weight gain and a loss of sexual appetite. This can be mitigated somewhat by taking estrogen regulators such as Clomid, which is a prescription drug for women. Anyway, the upshot of all this is injecting steroids in men is sort of complicated. For your rehab scenario, your doctor would have to monitor your test and estrogen levels as you end your cycle. For moderate cycles like with your calf rehab, the dangers are vastly overblown in the media, but the short-term side effects can be bothersome. Note that women don’t face these issues and indeed women can take convenient oral steroids like eg Winstrol without having to inject test to compensate for their natural production getting shut down, because they hardly have any natural production to begin with. Indeed, ethics aside, the arguments for women to do a very moderate cycle for your rehab scenario or just athletic performance are pretty strong.

gruez 5y ago
>As a result, when you end your cycle, your body needs to restart its natural test production. There can be a delay while this happens and it leads to unpleasant, though temporary, side effects, like weight gain and a loss of sexual appetite. Why not just slowly taper it off?
- wisty 5y ago
  Test is injected into muscles, usually once every 2-4 weeks. It can't be taken orally. This makes dosage control difficult. The long half-life also means that your body's control systems are slow to act (if they reacted quickly then you'd risk ending up with too much, and be unable to get rid of it).
  - ggreer 5y ago
    There are plenty of other anabolic steroids. Some are oral, and many have the same primary effect with fewer side effects. There's even a new class of drugs that can work for women.[1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_receptor_modulator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_receptor_mo...

vimy 5y ago

Or BPC 157.

dillondoyle 5y ago
Has anyone here used it? Or TB-500? I have a tendon/pulley injury that doesn't seem to want to heal and I've been researching it. At least one relevant study. There is one Dr. in my area (a gyno of all things) that has a website promoting his practice using it. So has at least a sheen of professionalism. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21030672/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21030672/
- leksak 5y ago
  Climber? I've had three pulley injuries and returned to sport. What, specifically, have you been doing to rehab it?
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    yup!! hang boarding, micro needling, some finger/arm exercises from PT. i climbed seriously as a kid until like 22 ish. then didn't for 7 ish years. it's now close to 2 years back (sep 24). I think that's the main issue, my skill/strength is higher than my fingers. Though I'm still decently strong just have pain/days I can't do much and fingers are weak compared to what I used to have. what about you? I've been thinking of seeing if this local Dr. has any ideas, it sounds like you have to get the peptides injected near the injury which freaks me out. Don't mess with my fingers!
    - slowmotiony 5y ago
      I did it and it worked wonders for my shoulder injury. Not giving you medical advice, but it's easy and not expensive so I would go for it if i were you. And subcutaneous injections are so easy you dont even feel them, I pin daily every morning with my coffee and it takes me 20 seconds using a super-slim insulin needle.
    - harimau777 5y ago

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Anabolic steroids must be administered very carefully because they are part of a neuroendocrine feedback system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary%E2%80%93gonadal_axis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary... The hypothalamus releases GnRH which tells the hypophysis to stimulate the testicles. The hypophysis releases LH which tells the testicles to release testosterone. If there's too much testosterone, the GnRH release of the hypothalamus is inhibited. If there's too little, it is stimulated. Through this mechanism, testosterone levels are regulated. Introducing exogenous testosterone can seriously screw with this system. The extra testosterone causes negative feedback on GnRH and LH, decreasing or stopping natural testosterone production: hypogonadism. Physical therapy does not have these risks and is effective at recovering functionality. Perhaps a specialist would use anabolic steroids in case physical therapy alone isn't enough.

skylanh 5y ago

There are a number of responses that don't make me comfortable. The clearest reasoning for why anabolic or androgenic steroids' are NOT given in the context for recovery strength or function in a professional medical setting are that: - it has unintended consequences that can be severe - it has unintended consequences that can be long-lasting - the expected consequences of use are more harmful than the regular recovery - and that these can be quite harmful, enough that the use of AAS isn't necessary. and finally the primary goal post surgical: > One of the most important considerations in selecting operative versus nonoperative treatment is the risk of rerupture. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7031433/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7031433/ Quite a few responses are getting into details of AAS use that isn't quite correct based on my understandings.

uCantCauseUCant 5y ago

Because steroids attack the bone? And suppress the imune system and everything is connected with everything..

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Taylor_OD 5y ago

We could. And it would be about as safe as much medicine that we use today. But like many drugs that could be useful... steroids === bad.