5 ms·

A school has existed since 1868 yet people move near it and think they should have the final say on what the school does. Can the school counter sue Save Berkel

A school has existed since 1868 yet people move near it and think they should have the final say on what the school does. Can the school counter sue Save Berkeley’s Neighborhood the using the CEQA since new residents have an impact on the environment, noise, housing and displacement? Not that I disagree, they added nearly 7x the students they planned to add due to reduced state funding so perhaps revisiting their plans is a good thing. Maybe they'll add more than just 150 faculty housing units. I think overall this just shows the uncertainty in higher education. Top tier schools can attract a practically limitless supply of students yet we can only add so many spots due to space constrains. Meanwhile there are dozens to hundreds of schools throughout the country that are closing due to declining enrollment (many deserved it since many of these schools were simply former agricultural schools, etc. that re-branded as universities to attract more students). Maybe instead of trying to squeeze every ounce of space on existing locations, these schools should open satellite schools throughout the country?

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Can the school counter sue Save Berkeley’s Neighborhood the using the CEQA since new residents have an impact on the environment, noise, housing and displacement? Sure, if (1) Save Berkeley’s Neighborhood was responsible for some action requiring an EIR, and UC can make a colorable argument both that (2) SBN violated the requirements of CEQA with regard to the EIR, and that (3) this caused legally cognizable injury to UC such that the University has standing. Of course, none of those are true.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
temp8964 5y ago
Can a state university expand to other states?
- TuringNYC 5y ago
  It probably depends on the covenants of the particular institution, but there is precedence for this. Texas A&M, for example, has a campus in Qatar (not just another state, but another country!) and even confers Degrees there. https://www.qatar.tamu.edu/ https://www.qatar.tamu.edu/ Texas A&M is a public university https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  UC has facilities out of state, e.g., the UC Washington Center in D.C.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> Maybe they'll add more than just 150 faculty housing units. Don't you think it's a bit dystopian for an employer to be housing its employees? Not sure that's what we should be aiming for.
- balozi 5y ago
  The housing units are less about housing of employees and more about parking of endowment coin in real estate investments. All the cool colleges do it to some degree.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    If rural institutions didn't offer faculty housing real estate prices would be even more out of whack than they are now.
- kevinventullo 5y ago
  While I agree in principle, in practice it can be very helpful for short-term positions like postdocs. Of course, you might argue that the very position of a postdoc and the whole carrot-on-a-string tenure apparatus is exploitative and immoral and… well I wouldn’t disagree :)
- neltnerb 5y ago
  Sure, a bit, but by doing this they also ensure that elderly professors can get to class without transit. Not so much an issue in Berkeley, of course, but makes a ton of sense for schools where heavy snowfall is a thing. School get canceled most often because professors [and employees] can't safely get to campus due to weather -- individual professors getting sick isn't enough to close the entire school.
- noobermin 5y ago
  It depends but university housing is a godsend especially if you're a postdoc or another type of visiting academic.
- AYBABTME 5y ago
  Korean companies do this all the time.
noobermin 5y ago
I feel like education inequality in this country is similar to income and wealth inequality in the US. Satellite schools are one thing but we already have hosts of universities that dot the landscape, yet most of the research funding (and thus, quality undergrad education) and thus most of the jobs go to the ivies and california ivies. We could change the tune federally but we won't.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Why don't these smaller schools just invest in getting better researchers and more grant funding?
throwawaylinux 5y ago
> A school has existed since 1868 yet people move near it and think they should have the final say on what the school does. Lots of things have existed for a long time, in the context of a society where they have always had to coexist and interact with others. Why would existing for some time give them license to affect the community and people around them in any way? This isn't like someone moving next to a pub and demand they stop playing music, or next to a farm and complain about the smell of manure. The complaint is about the adverse changes.
- mym1990 5y ago
  I can't quite put my finger on a concise answer to your first why, but it has something to do with the idea that some people have that seniority and longevity allow people more room to 'call the shots'. This can be seen in the workplace, in HOA communities, government, basically anywhere there is a power dynamic. Not saying that it is the right way to do things, but its hard to deny the presence.
  - stadium 5y ago
    Rebellion against intrusion into ones perceived personal space. It immediately reminds me of one of my all time memorable yet confusing quotes. "Every revolutionary ends by becoming either an oppressor or a heretic. In the purely historical universe that they have chosen, rebellion and revolution end in the same dilemma: either police rule or insanity." Albert Camus, The Rebel
- handmodel 5y ago
  The problem is one of coordination. If everything is determined by local control like this then every single college town will come to the same conclusion. I can empathize with the homeowners there - but obviously bad for society as a whole if every single town acts selfishly.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Everything is not determined by local control like this. Save Berkeley’s Neighborhoods is a group of residents that organizing collective action and is bringing a legal challenge against a massively wealthy and powerful organization which they believe is impacting their quality of life. Doesn't seem unreasonable.
Barrin92 5y ago
>A school has existed since 1868 yet people move near it and think they should have the final say on what the school does The university I went to has existed since 1388, one of the first universities in the Holy Roman Empire if I remember correctly, and yet it still answers to public authority when it comes to land use. That seems pretty normal to me, no such thing as academiocracy
- chrisco255 5y ago
  In America, we carve out special tax and land use districts for mouse-themed amusement facilities: https://www.rcid.org/about/ https://www.rcid.org/about/
- culopatin 5y ago
  This happens all the time. Open a race track in the middle of nowhere. 20 years later you have a group of neighbors asking you to cease your activity because it’s too loud. Same with airports.
xyzzy21 5y ago
That's the NIMBY way!! Especially in Blue California areas. Where I live there are "Farm Rights" laws which say if you are a newcomer, you can't file suit or complain about or interfere with normal farm operations. Existing farmers have complete seniority over new folks! So smells, sounds, big equipment on the roads, etc. MUST be tolerated. And especially the annual "shit straining" of fields with cow manure which smells up everything for the week or two when that's done. I think it's great and the way it should be!

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Can the school counter sue Save Berkeley’s Neighborhood the using the CEQA since new residents have an impact on the environment, noise, housing and displacement? Sure, if (1) Save Berkeley’s Neighborhood was responsible for some action requiring an EIR, and UC can make a colorable argument both that (2) SBN violated the requirements of CEQA with regard to the EIR, and that (3) this caused legally cognizable injury to UC such that the University has standing. Of course, none of those are true.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

temp8964 5y ago

Can a state university expand to other states?

TuringNYC 5y ago
It probably depends on the covenants of the particular institution, but there is precedence for this. Texas A&M, for example, has a campus in Qatar (not just another state, but another country!) and even confers Degrees there. https://www.qatar.tamu.edu/ https://www.qatar.tamu.edu/ Texas A&M is a public university https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University
dragonwriter 5y ago
UC has facilities out of state, e.g., the UC Washington Center in D.C.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> Maybe they'll add more than just 150 faculty housing units. Don't you think it's a bit dystopian for an employer to be housing its employees? Not sure that's what we should be aiming for.

balozi 5y ago
The housing units are less about housing of employees and more about parking of endowment coin in real estate investments. All the cool colleges do it to some degree.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  If rural institutions didn't offer faculty housing real estate prices would be even more out of whack than they are now.
kevinventullo 5y ago
While I agree in principle, in practice it can be very helpful for short-term positions like postdocs. Of course, you might argue that the very position of a postdoc and the whole carrot-on-a-string tenure apparatus is exploitative and immoral and… well I wouldn’t disagree :)
neltnerb 5y ago
Sure, a bit, but by doing this they also ensure that elderly professors can get to class without transit. Not so much an issue in Berkeley, of course, but makes a ton of sense for schools where heavy snowfall is a thing. School get canceled most often because professors [and employees] can't safely get to campus due to weather -- individual professors getting sick isn't enough to close the entire school.
noobermin 5y ago
It depends but university housing is a godsend especially if you're a postdoc or another type of visiting academic.
AYBABTME 5y ago
Korean companies do this all the time.

noobermin 5y ago

I feel like education inequality in this country is similar to income and wealth inequality in the US. Satellite schools are one thing but we already have hosts of universities that dot the landscape, yet most of the research funding (and thus, quality undergrad education) and thus most of the jobs go to the ivies and california ivies. We could change the tune federally but we won't.

908B64B197 5y ago
Why don't these smaller schools just invest in getting better researchers and more grant funding?

throwawaylinux 5y ago

> A school has existed since 1868 yet people move near it and think they should have the final say on what the school does. Lots of things have existed for a long time, in the context of a society where they have always had to coexist and interact with others. Why would existing for some time give them license to affect the community and people around them in any way? This isn't like someone moving next to a pub and demand they stop playing music, or next to a farm and complain about the smell of manure. The complaint is about the adverse changes.

mym1990 5y ago
I can't quite put my finger on a concise answer to your first why, but it has something to do with the idea that some people have that seniority and longevity allow people more room to 'call the shots'. This can be seen in the workplace, in HOA communities, government, basically anywhere there is a power dynamic. Not saying that it is the right way to do things, but its hard to deny the presence.
- stadium 5y ago
  Rebellion against intrusion into ones perceived personal space. It immediately reminds me of one of my all time memorable yet confusing quotes. "Every revolutionary ends by becoming either an oppressor or a heretic. In the purely historical universe that they have chosen, rebellion and revolution end in the same dilemma: either police rule or insanity." Albert Camus, The Rebel
handmodel 5y ago
The problem is one of coordination. If everything is determined by local control like this then every single college town will come to the same conclusion. I can empathize with the homeowners there - but obviously bad for society as a whole if every single town acts selfishly.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Everything is not determined by local control like this. Save Berkeley’s Neighborhoods is a group of residents that organizing collective action and is bringing a legal challenge against a massively wealthy and powerful organization which they believe is impacting their quality of life. Doesn't seem unreasonable.

Barrin92 5y ago

>A school has existed since 1868 yet people move near it and think they should have the final say on what the school does The university I went to has existed since 1388, one of the first universities in the Holy Roman Empire if I remember correctly, and yet it still answers to public authority when it comes to land use. That seems pretty normal to me, no such thing as academiocracy

chrisco255 5y ago
In America, we carve out special tax and land use districts for mouse-themed amusement facilities: https://www.rcid.org/about/ https://www.rcid.org/about/
culopatin 5y ago
This happens all the time. Open a race track in the middle of nowhere. 20 years later you have a group of neighbors asking you to cease your activity because it’s too loud. Same with airports.

xyzzy21 5y ago

That's the NIMBY way!! Especially in Blue California areas. Where I live there are "Farm Rights" laws which say if you are a newcomer, you can't file suit or complain about or interfere with normal farm operations. Existing farmers have complete seniority over new folks! So smells, sounds, big equipment on the roads, etc. MUST be tolerated. And especially the annual "shit straining" of fields with cow manure which smells up everything for the week or two when that's done. I think it's great and the way it should be!