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> Like--oh, woe is me, I only made a few multiples of the median personal income in the USA last year. This isn't helpful. I thought HN would understand more t

> Like--oh, woe is me, I only made a few multiples of the median personal income in the USA last year. This isn't helpful. I thought HN would understand more than most, but a lot don't seem to. It's more like--great I make a ton of money. now that you're here, try to keep it going. Taking a pay cut (which would be significant my comp is ~FAANG level), feels like gambling. Is it worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to gamble that my new lower paying job is less stressful? There are some success stories, but do we hear of people who left their high paying jobs only to be just as stressed in their new positions?

davidwf 5y ago
I personally left my FAANG role behind for a role that had way more of what I wanted to do (coding) and way less of what I hated (paperwork), and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. I think it's important to keep in mind "signal bias" -- I'm never on other social media, and I'm only on HN every weekday over my breakfast and morning coffee. I don't spend time building my brand or writing blog posts or shouting from the rooftops about how great my life is because I'm trying hard to stay busy actually enjoying how great my life is. In my experience, there really are a lot of folks who've made similar decisions, it's just that part of managing your life is also giving up on trying to convince strangers that you're awesome.
- jkhdigital 5y ago
  > part of managing your life is also giving up on trying to convince strangers that you're awesome. Amen. I find that it’s easiest to just focus on being awesome and let others figure it out on their own. Some won’t—oh well!
  - yolovoe 5y ago
    > let others figure it out I think that's what the GP is trying to avoid. Not caring whether others figure it out
neltnerb 5y ago
> Is it worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to gamble that my new lower paying job is less stressful? Worth it in what sense? You sound like you're trying to do a statistical and financially logical risk analysis. If you have burnout, that's just not an option. It sucks, but simply trying to do that math and somehow compare it to non-financial things that are important would probably take the help of a trained therapist. So the answer is just going to vary. If you are not on a path to burnout, who cares if the job is objectively stressful? Maybe you enjoy that environment and that's fine, in that context a logical financial analysis makes sense. Plenty of people are extremely happy and extremely successful in stressful high paying jobs, plenty of other people would happily make much less money if it means they get to spend more time with family, mentor, work for a non-profit they care about, do pro-bono work, switch fields, ... the list is long. People's motivations are complicated and I assume yours are too, or if they are not now that they are likely to become different as time goes on. If you are on a path to burnout, the amount the job pays matters a lot less. Certainly if you can lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of theoretical future income the answer is comically obvious -- yes, it is worth it to find something more sustainable. I've never made half a FAANG salary when compared to people with similar experience and education at those places, and would still give up half my salary to avoid it. But I also don't think it's obvious whether you are on a path to burnout, you could try engaging a therapist to help make sure that you are tracking your feelings at regular intervals to see the derivative, but often it's even harder to see from the inside than it is from the outside (by which I mean friends/family more than work colleagues). That said, money in the bank vastly reduces the stress that contributes to burnout, no question. Future earnings, not so much. Those are in the future, and imply that you will even be capable of continuing in the role you're in that long. A serious analysis of future financial rewards and career options is a thing that is almost beside the point when you're actually dealing with burnout. Uncertainty about careers is more of a professional coach thing, if I had a professional coach suggest to me that I should do a back of the envelope calculation of how much money I stand to gain if I merely push myself to work for another year and then burn out I am walking out the door by the time they finish the sentence. It's just the wrong type of advice for the issue at hand.
eropple 5y ago
I apologize that you find it unhelpful. But for me it is true, and I feel that it's worth saying--I have left at this point probably over a million dollars on the table to prioritize enjoying my life and I don't regret it in the least and the overwhelming majority of software developers making The Big Bucks probably can too if they want to prioritize something other than pulling a high score. > It's more like--great I make a ton of money. now that you're here, try to keep it going. Why? Like-so--in the long run, we're all dead. But, unlike many, many working folks in this country and in the world, we are pretty privileged to be able to enjoy a very comfortable life in this industry without worrying that we defer The Good Stuff so far that if we get hit by a bus tomorrow we'll never have had it. Like, I've been there, I've asked myself if twice my total compensation in a pressure cooker would make me happier, and I realized it wouldn't. Maybe you're different. But you also sound pretty unhappy about it, and I just came in from playing fetch with my dog and I'm neither worried about retirement nor about what sort of a shitshow tomorrow will be. YMMV. > There are some success stories, but do we hear of people who left their high paying jobs only to be just as stressed in their new positions? I'm sure that happens. But the whole point is preparation, isn't it? I've picked most of my jobs pretty carefully and after pretty long interview processes (my current one was a quick process because I've never vibed with a place like I do here, but that's an outlier). It means you're interviewing companies as much as you're being interviewed, but that's just fine. I keep a little more in the e-fund than maybe my coworkers do, because there's always the chance that it takes a little longer to find that job. But it's never been a problem for me.
- yupper32 5y ago
  > Why? Like-so--in the long run, we're all dead. I can retire in 10-15 years, or retire in like 35 years. I think a lot of people are missing this. 10-15 years of grinding and I'm free. Do I want to work until I'm 65, when I have the option not to? Hell no.
  - jkhdigital 5y ago
    > Do I want to work until I'm 65 What else are you going to do? If every form of “work” you encounter is just a means to an end, then I guess I can understand. But don’t underestimate how much you might change personally in 10-15 years, and how much enjoyment you might find in the future forms of work you engage with.
alex504 5y ago
There are a huge number of engineering jobs paying less than FAANG level, and some that are paying near that, where it is not nearly as bad as you've described. Personally those jobs still burn me out / depress me because I hate the industry and the job. But I can't imagine working somewhere that I felt I couldnt take a vacation. I make 240k total comp and I work about 5 hours a day remotely on average. I'm still thinking about quitting to do contracts and work less than half the year. I figure if I can make atleast 100 an hour I will be fine. I am fine living like a cheap bastard and don't have a family.

davidwf 5y ago

I personally left my FAANG role behind for a role that had way more of what I wanted to do (coding) and way less of what I hated (paperwork), and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. I think it's important to keep in mind "signal bias" -- I'm never on other social media, and I'm only on HN every weekday over my breakfast and morning coffee. I don't spend time building my brand or writing blog posts or shouting from the rooftops about how great my life is because I'm trying hard to stay busy actually enjoying how great my life is. In my experience, there really are a lot of folks who've made similar decisions, it's just that part of managing your life is also giving up on trying to convince strangers that you're awesome.

jkhdigital 5y ago
> part of managing your life is also giving up on trying to convince strangers that you're awesome. Amen. I find that it’s easiest to just focus on being awesome and let others figure it out on their own. Some won’t—oh well!
- yolovoe 5y ago
  > let others figure it out I think that's what the GP is trying to avoid. Not caring whether others figure it out

neltnerb 5y ago

> Is it worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to gamble that my new lower paying job is less stressful? Worth it in what sense? You sound like you're trying to do a statistical and financially logical risk analysis. If you have burnout, that's just not an option. It sucks, but simply trying to do that math and somehow compare it to non-financial things that are important would probably take the help of a trained therapist. So the answer is just going to vary. If you are not on a path to burnout, who cares if the job is objectively stressful? Maybe you enjoy that environment and that's fine, in that context a logical financial analysis makes sense. Plenty of people are extremely happy and extremely successful in stressful high paying jobs, plenty of other people would happily make much less money if it means they get to spend more time with family, mentor, work for a non-profit they care about, do pro-bono work, switch fields, ... the list is long. People's motivations are complicated and I assume yours are too, or if they are not now that they are likely to become different as time goes on. If you are on a path to burnout, the amount the job pays matters a lot less. Certainly if you can lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of theoretical future income the answer is comically obvious -- yes, it is worth it to find something more sustainable. I've never made half a FAANG salary when compared to people with similar experience and education at those places, and would still give up half my salary to avoid it. But I also don't think it's obvious whether you are on a path to burnout, you could try engaging a therapist to help make sure that you are tracking your feelings at regular intervals to see the derivative, but often it's even harder to see from the inside than it is from the outside (by which I mean friends/family more than work colleagues). That said, money in the bank vastly reduces the stress that contributes to burnout, no question. Future earnings, not so much. Those are in the future, and imply that you will even be capable of continuing in the role you're in that long. A serious analysis of future financial rewards and career options is a thing that is almost beside the point when you're actually dealing with burnout. Uncertainty about careers is more of a professional coach thing, if I had a professional coach suggest to me that I should do a back of the envelope calculation of how much money I stand to gain if I merely push myself to work for another year and then burn out I am walking out the door by the time they finish the sentence. It's just the wrong type of advice for the issue at hand.

eropple 5y ago

I apologize that you find it unhelpful. But for me it is true, and I feel that it's worth saying--I have left at this point probably over a million dollars on the table to prioritize enjoying my life and I don't regret it in the least and the overwhelming majority of software developers making The Big Bucks probably can too if they want to prioritize something other than pulling a high score. > It's more like--great I make a ton of money. now that you're here, try to keep it going. Why? Like-so--in the long run, we're all dead. But, unlike many, many working folks in this country and in the world, we are pretty privileged to be able to enjoy a very comfortable life in this industry without worrying that we defer The Good Stuff so far that if we get hit by a bus tomorrow we'll never have had it. Like, I've been there, I've asked myself if twice my total compensation in a pressure cooker would make me happier, and I realized it wouldn't. Maybe you're different. But you also sound pretty unhappy about it, and I just came in from playing fetch with my dog and I'm neither worried about retirement nor about what sort of a shitshow tomorrow will be. YMMV. > There are some success stories, but do we hear of people who left their high paying jobs only to be just as stressed in their new positions? I'm sure that happens. But the whole point is preparation, isn't it? I've picked most of my jobs pretty carefully and after pretty long interview processes (my current one was a quick process because I've never vibed with a place like I do here, but that's an outlier). It means you're interviewing companies as much as you're being interviewed, but that's just fine. I keep a little more in the e-fund than maybe my coworkers do, because there's always the chance that it takes a little longer to find that job. But it's never been a problem for me.

yupper32 5y ago
> Why? Like-so--in the long run, we're all dead. I can retire in 10-15 years, or retire in like 35 years. I think a lot of people are missing this. 10-15 years of grinding and I'm free. Do I want to work until I'm 65, when I have the option not to? Hell no.
- jkhdigital 5y ago
  > Do I want to work until I'm 65 What else are you going to do? If every form of “work” you encounter is just a means to an end, then I guess I can understand. But don’t underestimate how much you might change personally in 10-15 years, and how much enjoyment you might find in the future forms of work you engage with.

alex504 5y ago

There are a huge number of engineering jobs paying less than FAANG level, and some that are paying near that, where it is not nearly as bad as you've described. Personally those jobs still burn me out / depress me because I hate the industry and the job. But I can't imagine working somewhere that I felt I couldnt take a vacation. I make 240k total comp and I work about 5 hours a day remotely on average. I'm still thinking about quitting to do contracts and work less than half the year. I figure if I can make atleast 100 an hour I will be fine. I am fine living like a cheap bastard and don't have a family.