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Reminds me of "learned helplessness" [0]: "In humans, learned helplessness is related to the concept of self-efficacy; the individual's belief in their innate

by PKop 5y ago

Reminds me of "learned helplessness" [0]: "In humans, learned helplessness is related to the concept of self-efficacy; the individual's belief in their innate ability to achieve goals. Learned helplessness theory is the view that clinical depression and related mental illnesses may result from such real or perceived absence of control over the outcome of a situation." [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

klyrs 5y ago
Reminds me of how I thought about other people's mental health before I burnt out and kept pushing for several years. Good luck.
- roflc0ptic 5y ago
  I think relating burnout to learned helplessness registered as dismissive to you - it definitely isn't. Depressive helplessness/burnout/learned helplessness all have a lot in common; GP was apparently just making that connection. They probably share some very similar biological mechanisms.
- PKop 5y ago
  Point of relating it to learned helplessness is that companies may structure their work, or assignments, or team structure, or culture, expectations etc in ways where employees feel nothing is getting accomplished, they have no autonomy, workload stacks up, and eventually they feel nothing they do can make the situation better. They are not setup such that applying more effort causes workload or problems to get smaller, or where progress is made. They learn that the situation is helpless. Now there's some fuzziness around whether this realization is maybe the end of the struggle for some, where they stop burning themselves out and just give up. But they would need options; quitting or having alternative employment to go somewhere else. If not, they'll be in a bad spot.
Nevermark 5y ago
The "learned helplessness" rings true to me. Burnout for has usually occurred to me after making many attempts to get past major inefficiencies. Work continues, but despite many attempts, remains a terrible slow inefficient slog. Far below my potential. Eventually I just become unable to work. Extreme mental fatigue even after good rest or even long vacation breaks. I am happy to say I got free of the situational factors that were never going to get better and am very happy and productive now. One things that amazes me, how truly dumb I am when depressed vs. happily creatively challenged. Anyone meeting me in these two states would have very different impressions of my abilities, potential, work ethic, etc.
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  Same for me. When I'm excited and motivated, feeling positive, I'm an unstoppable force and my brain works better than I realize it can. When I'm depressed, I will barely engage. I'll forget everything I'm doing. I'll have no executive function. Solving similar problems to those I have in the past seems insurmountable. Knowing this, and having no power over it in the moment, makes it a lot worse.

by PKop 5y ago

klyrs 5y ago

Reminds me of how I thought about other people's mental health before I burnt out and kept pushing for several years. Good luck.

roflc0ptic 5y ago
I think relating burnout to learned helplessness registered as dismissive to you - it definitely isn't. Depressive helplessness/burnout/learned helplessness all have a lot in common; GP was apparently just making that connection. They probably share some very similar biological mechanisms.
PKop 5y ago
Point of relating it to learned helplessness is that companies may structure their work, or assignments, or team structure, or culture, expectations etc in ways where employees feel nothing is getting accomplished, they have no autonomy, workload stacks up, and eventually they feel nothing they do can make the situation better. They are not setup such that applying more effort causes workload or problems to get smaller, or where progress is made. They learn that the situation is helpless. Now there's some fuzziness around whether this realization is maybe the end of the struggle for some, where they stop burning themselves out and just give up. But they would need options; quitting or having alternative employment to go somewhere else. If not, they'll be in a bad spot.

Nevermark 5y ago

The "learned helplessness" rings true to me. Burnout for has usually occurred to me after making many attempts to get past major inefficiencies. Work continues, but despite many attempts, remains a terrible slow inefficient slog. Far below my potential. Eventually I just become unable to work. Extreme mental fatigue even after good rest or even long vacation breaks. I am happy to say I got free of the situational factors that were never going to get better and am very happy and productive now. One things that amazes me, how truly dumb I am when depressed vs. happily creatively challenged. Anyone meeting me in these two states would have very different impressions of my abilities, potential, work ethic, etc.

steve_adams_86 5y ago
Same for me. When I'm excited and motivated, feeling positive, I'm an unstoppable force and my brain works better than I realize it can. When I'm depressed, I will barely engage. I'll forget everything I'm doing. I'll have no executive function. Solving similar problems to those I have in the past seems insurmountable. Knowing this, and having no power over it in the moment, makes it a lot worse.