4 ms·

There is a story to tell here beyond just conventional recycling computers... One could be on the digital divide. For example, there are plenty of computers t

There is a story to tell here beyond just conventional recycling computers... One could be on the digital divide. For example, there are plenty of computers that may not even need recycling which could be given new life by installing a lightweight linux distribution. This opens up opportunities for folks on the tough side of the digital divide...because perfectly functional computers can be repurposed for lightweight use and donated to folks who can not afford computers. Another approach could be for Dell to acknowledge to donor, "hey, we noticed that yo wish to recycle that computer...did you know that your machine can run Ubuntu, and maybe given new life? We even sell you a $10 support package for ubuntu, etc.?" Maybe this is not always possible, but there are cross-selling opportunities for Dell and Ubuntu here. (I say ubuntu not to exclude other linux distros but simply because Dell already sells computers loaded with ubuntu, so there's precedenct for support.) I'm sure there are other options beyond the above...because just having a web form for conventional recycling almost feels...i don't know "disposable"? Am i crazy for thinking this?

trangus_1985 5y ago
I would love to see what the environmental impact of recycling a computer (and acquiring a new one with lower power consumption) versus buying a new one. I suppose that makes more sense for business than home, though.
- kop316 5y ago
  On my thinkpad x200, I seem to use ~11-12 Watts doing normal usage. For newer laptops, what would be the expected usage?
  - tpxl 5y ago
    Similar, but with a much better perf/W. That's the biggest problem with old hardware. I'd love to be able to run old servers with dual cores and such in a big cluster, but 60W for an old CPU with 10% of the performance of a similar modern CPU is just not very attractive ):
  - icegreentea2 5y ago
    If you aimed for similar class (ultraportable), you're going to be in pretty much the same ballpark. Ultraportable CPUs are normally in the sub 15W (peak) now, and screens are The embodied energy of the laptop is high (estimate in the ~5GJ range) (http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2011/papers/hotnetsX-final56.pdf http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2011/papers/hotnetsX-...). Ballparking now... assuming 5GJ of embodied energy, 20W power draw, 100% duty cycle, you'll need to run a laptop for about 8 years for its power draw to match its embodied energy. That means that changing laptops much more frequently than that will probably result in net higher energy consumption. Obviously, the lower the power consumption gets, the longer the "payoff" period becomes - this is why servers which might have 10x the embodied energy, but >40x the power draw are still economical to have more rapid hardware refresh cycles.
    - JadeNB 5y ago
      > If you aimed for similar class (ultraportable), you're going to be in pretty much the same ballpark. Ultraportable CPUs are normally in the sub 15W (peak) now, and screens are I think this got truncated.
  - zokier 5y ago
    Reading random laptop review[1] claims to get >14h usage with 55 Wh battery, putting the average below 4W. Of course what constitutes normal usage varies, but I'd guess modern laptops would easily halve the energy consumption of your vintage one. And Apples new M1 laptops are yet much more efficient. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Book-13-Core-i7-Laptop-Review-Like-an-XPS-13-But-Faster.508474.0.html#toc-energy-management https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Book-13-Core-i7-Laptop-R...
kop316 5y ago
> installing a lightweight linux distribution I don't even know how lightweight it needs to be. I am typing this on a Thinkpad x200 (laptop from 2008, Intel Core 2 Duo) with Debian Bullseye and MATE as it's DE. It does everything I need to do (Web browsing, SSH, development). I also didn't choose MATE for lightweight reasons, it's because I like it. I also have a Thinkpad T61 and T60, and I have been meaning to bring those up and try them out, but my x200 works so well I haven't bothered to try yet.
- drewzero1 5y ago
  Same here- my R61i (2008, C2D) was perfectly usable (if not blazing) on Debian 10 with Mate. I upgraded to a W500 (2009, also C2D) earlier this year and except for gaming, it's fine. I probably wouldn't run Gnome Shell on them, but all but the heaviest DEs seem to run acceptably (and much better than Windows 10) on decade-old hardware.
Bukhmanizer 5y ago
As someone who does this, you’re not wrong, but I don’t know how many lightweight Linux distributions your typical person who can’t manage to install Linux would be able to, or want to use, even with some support. The only thing I could see working is if you basically made it like ChromeOS, a locked down, web browser based machine. Which actually wouldn’t be the worst idea considering most people just use their computers to go on the internet.
- milesward 5y ago
  cough neverware cough https://www.neverware.com/ https://www.neverware.com/
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    Unrelated, but I thought it was a satirical site for a minute, and it took me time to get convinced otherwise. There is something about the low stakes design and cookie cutter writing that makes it sound so off. On what they do, yes, it seems to be a valuable service for companies that don’t directly manage their devices.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I installed lubuntu on a comically low powered AMD E-350 computer for my grandmother when her old desktop died. Gave her a simplified desktop with a weather display and big icons for her email, her Facebook, and the obituary page of her hometown newspaper. She transitioned to it just fine and only once in five years did I have to walk someone through the fsck process from what was probably hundreds of unclean shutdowns.
- mxuribe 5y ago
  No doubt that there would be a wide spectrum of levels of acceptance...some folks even given a good optioon for support might choose to recycle their old machine because they're genuinely interested in getting the shiny newness...so offering any lightweight option with even cheap support won't be accepted by some folks...but i have to believe that there are folks out there who when *informed* that "hey, you know what? your computer is still usable for a little while longer..." might think twice before getting rid of their old machine. And, BTW, if you're doing this already, then good on you! Kudos for helping avoid machines hitting the landfills, recycling centers unnecessarily!

trangus_1985 5y ago

I would love to see what the environmental impact of recycling a computer (and acquiring a new one with lower power consumption) versus buying a new one. I suppose that makes more sense for business than home, though.

kop316 5y ago
On my thinkpad x200, I seem to use ~11-12 Watts doing normal usage. For newer laptops, what would be the expected usage?
- tpxl 5y ago
  Similar, but with a much better perf/W. That's the biggest problem with old hardware. I'd love to be able to run old servers with dual cores and such in a big cluster, but 60W for an old CPU with 10% of the performance of a similar modern CPU is just not very attractive ):
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  If you aimed for similar class (ultraportable), you're going to be in pretty much the same ballpark. Ultraportable CPUs are normally in the sub 15W (peak) now, and screens are The embodied energy of the laptop is high (estimate in the ~5GJ range) (http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2011/papers/hotnetsX-final56.pdf http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2011/papers/hotnetsX-...). Ballparking now... assuming 5GJ of embodied energy, 20W power draw, 100% duty cycle, you'll need to run a laptop for about 8 years for its power draw to match its embodied energy. That means that changing laptops much more frequently than that will probably result in net higher energy consumption. Obviously, the lower the power consumption gets, the longer the "payoff" period becomes - this is why servers which might have 10x the embodied energy, but >40x the power draw are still economical to have more rapid hardware refresh cycles.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    > If you aimed for similar class (ultraportable), you're going to be in pretty much the same ballpark. Ultraportable CPUs are normally in the sub 15W (peak) now, and screens are I think this got truncated.
- zokier 5y ago
  Reading random laptop review[1] claims to get >14h usage with 55 Wh battery, putting the average below 4W. Of course what constitutes normal usage varies, but I'd guess modern laptops would easily halve the energy consumption of your vintage one. And Apples new M1 laptops are yet much more efficient. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Book-13-Core-i7-Laptop-Review-Like-an-XPS-13-But-Faster.508474.0.html#toc-energy-management https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Book-13-Core-i7-Laptop-R...

kop316 5y ago

> installing a lightweight linux distribution I don't even know how lightweight it needs to be. I am typing this on a Thinkpad x200 (laptop from 2008, Intel Core 2 Duo) with Debian Bullseye and MATE as it's DE. It does everything I need to do (Web browsing, SSH, development). I also didn't choose MATE for lightweight reasons, it's because I like it. I also have a Thinkpad T61 and T60, and I have been meaning to bring those up and try them out, but my x200 works so well I haven't bothered to try yet.

drewzero1 5y ago
Same here- my R61i (2008, C2D) was perfectly usable (if not blazing) on Debian 10 with Mate. I upgraded to a W500 (2009, also C2D) earlier this year and except for gaming, it's fine. I probably wouldn't run Gnome Shell on them, but all but the heaviest DEs seem to run acceptably (and much better than Windows 10) on decade-old hardware.

Bukhmanizer 5y ago

As someone who does this, you’re not wrong, but I don’t know how many lightweight Linux distributions your typical person who can’t manage to install Linux would be able to, or want to use, even with some support. The only thing I could see working is if you basically made it like ChromeOS, a locked down, web browser based machine. Which actually wouldn’t be the worst idea considering most people just use their computers to go on the internet.

milesward 5y ago
cough neverware cough https://www.neverware.com/ https://www.neverware.com/
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  Unrelated, but I thought it was a satirical site for a minute, and it took me time to get convinced otherwise. There is something about the low stakes design and cookie cutter writing that makes it sound so off. On what they do, yes, it seems to be a valuable service for companies that don’t directly manage their devices.
sokoloff 5y ago
I installed lubuntu on a comically low powered AMD E-350 computer for my grandmother when her old desktop died. Gave her a simplified desktop with a weather display and big icons for her email, her Facebook, and the obituary page of her hometown newspaper. She transitioned to it just fine and only once in five years did I have to walk someone through the fsck process from what was probably hundreds of unclean shutdowns.
mxuribe 5y ago
No doubt that there would be a wide spectrum of levels of acceptance...some folks even given a good optioon for support might choose to recycle their old machine because they're genuinely interested in getting the shiny newness...so offering any lightweight option with even cheap support won't be accepted by some folks...but i have to believe that there are folks out there who when *informed* that "hey, you know what? your computer is still usable for a little while longer..." might think twice before getting rid of their old machine. And, BTW, if you're doing this already, then good on you! Kudos for helping avoid machines hitting the landfills, recycling centers unnecessarily!