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> It could flag you as a supporter of Free Hong Kong in China, women's rights in Afghanistan, or maybe just someone who likes gay porn in Russia And how do you

> It could flag you as a supporter of Free Hong Kong in China, women's rights in Afghanistan, or maybe just someone who likes gay porn in Russia And how do you propose that all of these evil regimes are going to get their images into the NCMEC database? The hash DB will only include photos that are in NCMEC and a second countries’ CSAM database. And it will be trivial to verify that the hash DB is consistent across different countries.

matheusmoreira 5y ago
> And how do you propose that all of these evil regimes are going to get their images into the NCMEC database? All they have to do is say: in order to sell iPhones in this country, you must do what we want. Apple will capitulate.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  I know it means nothing to people that make this argument but Apple have already said that they won't give in to those demands. If they do, I would expect far more backlash than from just one country.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Yeah, Apple will totally refuse the chinese government which owns the chinese market that Apple cannot afford to lose.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      Who says they can't afford to lose the Chinese market? They're literally sitting on a stockpile of cash.
nullc 5y ago
> And how do you propose that all of these evil regimes are going to get their images into the NCMEC database? The hash DB will only include photos that are in NCMEC and a second countries’ CSAM database. I am russia. I take actual child porn from my vast kompromat databases (perhaps sent to me helpfully by facebook), or have my agents make some more themselves. They have many talents. I use adversarial modification to make the child porn match many images of gay pornography popular with the peoples of my country. I add these modified images to my child porn to my databases and also ship it off to the relevant agencies in other countries. It's obviously child porn, so of course they add it. Apple staff forwards me matches, the images look pornographic and they hit the database. Failure to report child porn you discovered is a felony, so they will error towards reporting. If for some reason apple doesn't forward on enough of the matches, I hack their severs, kidnap their staff, or simply order them to provide the data they are already collecting (on penalty of not being able to sell in russia anymore). I can continue to use the pretext of searching for child porn to do all this with a smile. I think this is all obvious enough, and I'm sure the people who work in this business are smarter than we are, have capabilities we can't imagine, and can come up with even better attacks.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> And how do you propose that all of these evil regimes are going to get their images into the NCMEC database? All they have to do is say: in order to sell iPhones in this country, you must do what we want. Apple will capitulate.

dkonofalski 5y ago
I know it means nothing to people that make this argument but Apple have already said that they won't give in to those demands. If they do, I would expect far more backlash than from just one country.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Yeah, Apple will totally refuse the chinese government which owns the chinese market that Apple cannot afford to lose.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    Who says they can't afford to lose the Chinese market? They're literally sitting on a stockpile of cash.

nullc 5y ago

> And how do you propose that all of these evil regimes are going to get their images into the NCMEC database? The hash DB will only include photos that are in NCMEC and a second countries’ CSAM database. I am russia. I take actual child porn from my vast kompromat databases (perhaps sent to me helpfully by facebook), or have my agents make some more themselves. They have many talents. I use adversarial modification to make the child porn match many images of gay pornography popular with the peoples of my country. I add these modified images to my child porn to my databases and also ship it off to the relevant agencies in other countries. It's obviously child porn, so of course they add it. Apple staff forwards me matches, the images look pornographic and they hit the database. Failure to report child porn you discovered is a felony, so they will error towards reporting. If for some reason apple doesn't forward on enough of the matches, I hack their severs, kidnap their staff, or simply order them to provide the data they are already collecting (on penalty of not being able to sell in russia anymore). I can continue to use the pretext of searching for child porn to do all this with a smile. I think this is all obvious enough, and I'm sure the people who work in this business are smarter than we are, have capabilities we can't imagine, and can come up with even better attacks.