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> Because the initial investment is so high you're practically forced to add extra Apple Care to protect it because there's a 20-30% chance you will have proble

> Because the initial investment is so high you're practically forced to add extra Apple Care to protect it because there's a 20-30% chance you will have problems during those first years. Here's the inverse argument: it's absolutely ridiculous I have to pay 20-30% extra for my Macbook even though I don't care about the mandatory 3-year warranty. They should let me opt out for a discount! Well, they do. > you're practically forced to add extra Apple Care Are you really pro-freedom (see argument above), or just anti-Apple?

0x0 5y ago
Or, you know, it's absolutely ridiculous that they sell broken stuff and then want to charge you more for you to receive a working product that you paid for in the first place. Maybe they should try to engineer things so that they don't break within a reasonable time frame under normal wear&tear. Would save money for both themselves and the customer in the end.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  > Maybe they should try to engineer things so that they don't break within a reasonable time frame under normal wear&tear. Would save money for both themselves and the customer in the end. You sound pretty confident, but just think about this: do you really know more about how Apple should be run than all of their executives combined, or is there a false assumption here?
gmac 5y ago
If you make them guarantee it for three years (or perhaps five) you give them a stronger incentive to build it to last, and you can be sure it’s going to last that long. There’s a strong environmental (public good) aspect to this, so no, you should not be able to opt out. I find it even more ridiculous that big items like fridges, ovens, and washing machines are also often only guaranteed one year. I think a ten year minimum would be reasonable for white goods.
- niij 5y ago
  Why stop at 10? Is there some mechanical threshold we can't design around at that point? I'd propose 20 years should be the minimum.. unless you hate the environment.
  - sombremesa 5y ago
    The irony in these 'demands' is that this would simply serve to further entrench Apple in its market position, since if you legislated for increasing the cost of doing business tenfold like this, you'd shut out any competitor that wasn't flush with the cash to make it happen. Of course, legislators know this and that's why it won't happen unless it becomes much more economically feasible than it is today.
    - gmac 5y ago
      I don’t think it would increase Apple’s cost of doing business anything like tenfold, partly because my experience is that Apple’s products usually last. It might increase costs more for cheap and shoddy vendors, which is kind of the point — you want to rule out making cheap crap that breaks as a point of competition — but again I’d be surprised if the increase was anything like as big as that.
systemvoltage 5y ago
I’d much rather save $$$ than to pay everyone else’s repair bills. That said - its just ridiculous how much Apple charges for individual a-la-carte repairs. Or rather lack thereof - they’d just say replace the entire motherboard or display.
pier25 5y ago
I'm not anti Apple at all. I'm using an iMac right now and I also use an iPad Pro daily. What I'm saying is, Macs should include 3 years of warranty at current prices. If Macs had the reliability of iPads and iPhones it would make more sense to not get the extended warranty.
- acdha 5y ago
  > If Macs had the reliability of iPads and iPhones it would make more sense to not get the extended warranty. They do. People who don't have problems don't complain so you have to be careful basing your impression on what people feel motivated to mention.
  - eric_h 5y ago
    it's true, ggp's claim of "20-30% chance you will have problems during those first years." is not based in data. if that was the rate, the cost of the extended warranty (apple care) would be much higher.
    - eric_h 5y ago
      and further OP would never have been able to squeeze $10k of repairs/replacements out of an original $3k? outlay.
    - pier25 5y ago
      Obviously that was my personal anecdotal experience. Apple doesn't publish this data. It was probably worse than 30% for the 2016 MBP models considering the keyboard issues though.

0x0 5y ago

Or, you know, it's absolutely ridiculous that they sell broken stuff and then want to charge you more for you to receive a working product that you paid for in the first place. Maybe they should try to engineer things so that they don't break within a reasonable time frame under normal wear&tear. Would save money for both themselves and the customer in the end.

sombremesa 5y ago
> Maybe they should try to engineer things so that they don't break within a reasonable time frame under normal wear&tear. Would save money for both themselves and the customer in the end. You sound pretty confident, but just think about this: do you really know more about how Apple should be run than all of their executives combined, or is there a false assumption here?

gmac 5y ago

If you make them guarantee it for three years (or perhaps five) you give them a stronger incentive to build it to last, and you can be sure it’s going to last that long. There’s a strong environmental (public good) aspect to this, so no, you should not be able to opt out. I find it even more ridiculous that big items like fridges, ovens, and washing machines are also often only guaranteed one year. I think a ten year minimum would be reasonable for white goods.

niij 5y ago
Why stop at 10? Is there some mechanical threshold we can't design around at that point? I'd propose 20 years should be the minimum.. unless you hate the environment.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  The irony in these 'demands' is that this would simply serve to further entrench Apple in its market position, since if you legislated for increasing the cost of doing business tenfold like this, you'd shut out any competitor that wasn't flush with the cash to make it happen. Of course, legislators know this and that's why it won't happen unless it becomes much more economically feasible than it is today.
  - gmac 5y ago
    I don’t think it would increase Apple’s cost of doing business anything like tenfold, partly because my experience is that Apple’s products usually last. It might increase costs more for cheap and shoddy vendors, which is kind of the point — you want to rule out making cheap crap that breaks as a point of competition — but again I’d be surprised if the increase was anything like as big as that.

systemvoltage 5y ago

I’d much rather save $$$ than to pay everyone else’s repair bills. That said - its just ridiculous how much Apple charges for individual a-la-carte repairs. Or rather lack thereof - they’d just say replace the entire motherboard or display.

pier25 5y ago

I'm not anti Apple at all. I'm using an iMac right now and I also use an iPad Pro daily. What I'm saying is, Macs should include 3 years of warranty at current prices. If Macs had the reliability of iPads and iPhones it would make more sense to not get the extended warranty.

acdha 5y ago
> If Macs had the reliability of iPads and iPhones it would make more sense to not get the extended warranty. They do. People who don't have problems don't complain so you have to be careful basing your impression on what people feel motivated to mention.
- eric_h 5y ago
  it's true, ggp's claim of "20-30% chance you will have problems during those first years." is not based in data. if that was the rate, the cost of the extended warranty (apple care) would be much higher.
  - eric_h 5y ago
    and further OP would never have been able to squeeze $10k of repairs/replacements out of an original $3k? outlay.
  - pier25 5y ago
    Obviously that was my personal anecdotal experience. Apple doesn't publish this data. It was probably worse than 30% for the 2016 MBP models considering the keyboard issues though.