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> all we need > green power There is no such thing as green power. Solar and wind are not renewable. They require heavy industries only possible with fossil f

by lwouis 5y ago

> all we need > green power There is no such thing as green power. Solar and wind are not renewable. They require heavy industries only possible with fossil fuel to manufacture the appliances. They require physical elements that are not in every country (thus you need to transport things). They require storage that's absolutely not possible at the scales we are talking about (replacing current fossil). Etc etc. There is no clear path forward where we continue to gorge in energy and objects. There is a clear de-growth path if we want to be reasonable and not toast our planet. But there is no existing magic tech today. Calling wind/solar green is green washing. Look into the lifecycle of these things and you will realize why they are not sustainable at all.

nanomonkey 5y ago
There are literally green power sources, it's called plants. Plants produce all of the chemicals available in petroleum, and pull CO2 out of the air. After converting the plants into methane, syngas or biodiesel you are left with the remaining carbon chain which can be used for soil building, thus "reverse mining" carbon from the air, putting it back into the soil. This can be done without using petroleum, or using land that would be used for growing food crops. It can also be done with food wastes like walnut shells, bigasse, or corn stover.
mbgerring 5y ago
> Only possible with fossil fuel Why? Many heavy industrial process that currently require fossil fuels are moving to electric machinery. The first batch of steel made without coal shipped from Sweden last week: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/19/green-steel-swedish-company-ships-first-batch-made-without-using-coal https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/19/green-steel-... > Look into the lifecycle Here’s the summary of a recent NREL study on lifecycle emissions of various renewable energy technologies: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/56487.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/56487.pdf Solar beats coal (not sure about natural gas, I’d like to see that on the chart), at current efficiencies and with current manufacturing methods. These lifecycle emissions figures need to be considered on a curve — as more electricity on the grid comes from renewable sources, and more industrial processes are electrified, the lifecycle emissions for solar go down. The same is obviously not true for coal or gas.
- AstralStorm 5y ago
  Albeit when the solar panels reach the end of life... Not to mention the batteries. Many turbine, coal, gas plants lived for more than 50 years with some maintenance. That's longer than nuclear, and both solar and wind are perishable in comparison. That does not excuse the use of fossil fuels, just highlights that we'll have another problem to deal with soon enough. We'll see how good recycling and refurbishing is on these installations.

by lwouis 5y ago

nanomonkey 5y ago

There are literally green power sources, it's called plants. Plants produce all of the chemicals available in petroleum, and pull CO2 out of the air. After converting the plants into methane, syngas or biodiesel you are left with the remaining carbon chain which can be used for soil building, thus "reverse mining" carbon from the air, putting it back into the soil. This can be done without using petroleum, or using land that would be used for growing food crops. It can also be done with food wastes like walnut shells, bigasse, or corn stover.

mbgerring 5y ago

> Only possible with fossil fuel Why? Many heavy industrial process that currently require fossil fuels are moving to electric machinery. The first batch of steel made without coal shipped from Sweden last week: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/19/green-steel-swedish-company-ships-first-batch-made-without-using-coal https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/19/green-steel-... > Look into the lifecycle Here’s the summary of a recent NREL study on lifecycle emissions of various renewable energy technologies: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/56487.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/56487.pdf Solar beats coal (not sure about natural gas, I’d like to see that on the chart), at current efficiencies and with current manufacturing methods. These lifecycle emissions figures need to be considered on a curve — as more electricity on the grid comes from renewable sources, and more industrial processes are electrified, the lifecycle emissions for solar go down. The same is obviously not true for coal or gas.

AstralStorm 5y ago
Albeit when the solar panels reach the end of life... Not to mention the batteries. Many turbine, coal, gas plants lived for more than 50 years with some maintenance. That's longer than nuclear, and both solar and wind are perishable in comparison. That does not excuse the use of fossil fuels, just highlights that we'll have another problem to deal with soon enough. We'll see how good recycling and refurbishing is on these installations.