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I think that the idea that parents can post nude pictures of you without your consent is bullshit, which was a subtext of my op.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
Well, if you have kids, especially newborns, you do take and send a whole lot of pictures. That alone suggests Apple CSAM thing will have a busy time trying to figure out which is CP and which is just a parent sharing their own kid pictures. Naturally, it does not help that we now effectively have no privacy.
- ghaff 5y ago
  You're probably getting downvoted because Apple CSAM does not look at a photo in isolation and "decide" whether it crosses the line into child pornography or not. It's comparing hashes to a child porn database as I understand it.
- jonplackett 5y ago
  The reason you're getting down voted, I would guess, is that that is not the way CSAM scanning works. Apple have a list of photos they know are CSAM, or rather hashes of them, and the look for those and only those on your device. They also introduced another thing that scans your kid's incoming and outgoing messages for what look like dodgy photos - that does look at general photo content (rather than compare to a list) which has been the source of a lot of the confusion. (FWIW I still think the CSAM scanning is an incredibly bad idea and horribly slippery slope to start sliding on.)
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I don't mind. I do find the reaction interesting though. In a practical sense, they could have called it anything and since they announced it in the same breath, my mental map keeps it under the same umbrella. It is not on me that Apple communicates poorly. But lets get past that. The 'dodgy photos' functionality ( because that was indeed what I was referring to vs hash db ) is where it is going to get tricky. I am sure there will be parents, who will absolutely love it. Just as I am sure that there will be ones who think this will not end well.
  - nullc 5y ago
    > Apple have a list of photos they know are CSAM, or rather hashes of them Technically, that government agencies claim are CSAM and the "hash" is highly vulnerable to preimage attacks: I can take random unrelated photos and make them match other hashes, https://github.com/AsuharietYgvar/AppleNeuralHash2ONNX/issues/1#issuecomment-903094036 https://github.com/AsuharietYgvar/AppleNeuralHash2ONNX/issue... This means people can take child porn images and modify them so they match targeted innocent images, and take innocent images and modify them so they match child porn.
S_A_P 5y ago
That is a whole other ball of wax. Age of consent is a thing. As a parent I wouldn’t choose to let my child be part of that sort of photo. I also don’t think his parents had any malice in putting Spencer in that photo. Until recently he seemed completely ok with drawing attention to the photo by recreating it multiple times and giving interviews. Let’s not pretend that he would be suing Nirvana if that album sold 5000 copies either.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  That's what makes this so highly probable that it is just a vulgar money grab. The image was recreated when he was 10, and again in 2016 (!).

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

Well, if you have kids, especially newborns, you do take and send a whole lot of pictures. That alone suggests Apple CSAM thing will have a busy time trying to figure out which is CP and which is just a parent sharing their own kid pictures. Naturally, it does not help that we now effectively have no privacy.

ghaff 5y ago
You're probably getting downvoted because Apple CSAM does not look at a photo in isolation and "decide" whether it crosses the line into child pornography or not. It's comparing hashes to a child porn database as I understand it.
jonplackett 5y ago
The reason you're getting down voted, I would guess, is that that is not the way CSAM scanning works. Apple have a list of photos they know are CSAM, or rather hashes of them, and the look for those and only those on your device. They also introduced another thing that scans your kid's incoming and outgoing messages for what look like dodgy photos - that does look at general photo content (rather than compare to a list) which has been the source of a lot of the confusion. (FWIW I still think the CSAM scanning is an incredibly bad idea and horribly slippery slope to start sliding on.)
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I don't mind. I do find the reaction interesting though. In a practical sense, they could have called it anything and since they announced it in the same breath, my mental map keeps it under the same umbrella. It is not on me that Apple communicates poorly. But lets get past that. The 'dodgy photos' functionality ( because that was indeed what I was referring to vs hash db ) is where it is going to get tricky. I am sure there will be parents, who will absolutely love it. Just as I am sure that there will be ones who think this will not end well.
- nullc 5y ago
  > Apple have a list of photos they know are CSAM, or rather hashes of them Technically, that government agencies claim are CSAM and the "hash" is highly vulnerable to preimage attacks: I can take random unrelated photos and make them match other hashes, https://github.com/AsuharietYgvar/AppleNeuralHash2ONNX/issues/1#issuecomment-903094036 https://github.com/AsuharietYgvar/AppleNeuralHash2ONNX/issue... This means people can take child porn images and modify them so they match targeted innocent images, and take innocent images and modify them so they match child porn.

S_A_P 5y ago

That is a whole other ball of wax. Age of consent is a thing. As a parent I wouldn’t choose to let my child be part of that sort of photo. I also don’t think his parents had any malice in putting Spencer in that photo. Until recently he seemed completely ok with drawing attention to the photo by recreating it multiple times and giving interviews. Let’s not pretend that he would be suing Nirvana if that album sold 5000 copies either.

Freak_NL 5y ago
That's what makes this so highly probable that it is just a vulgar money grab. The image was recreated when he was 10, and again in 2016 (!).