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A customer interfering with the operation of a business is a wide net. If I as an employee see ethical operation as part of business, then a customer being unet

by zaarn 5y ago

A customer interfering with the operation of a business is a wide net. If I as an employee see ethical operation as part of business, then a customer being unethical in their behaviour is justifiable. Taking a dump on the floor or being the US Military and blowing up innocents isn't that far apart in objectionable behaviour, except in one case you can clean up the mess yourself while in the other your tax dollars are used for it. On your university professor example; what is mistaken about something they are teaching but a disagreement in political views on their teachings? Can you really judge mistakes without becoming political about it? And in many cases, those can intuitively overlap, such as if the professor is teaching that people of color are less intelligent because of their skin color. Their teaching is wrong and they will be fired for political reasons. They'll be cancelled for that. One can also argue that employees can simply refuse to sell their work hours to their employer if they disagree with a customer (aka a strike), however, Google has been very resilient against allowing employees to bargain on a level playing field (after all what are employees but customers seeking to sell their body and time for money?)

radu_floricica 5y ago
You're really stretching the argument. Probably the worst is confusing the US Military with a coffeeshop customer. At most they'd be the supplier or employer, and like I said you're free not to buy from or work with people you don't like. That was never in doubt, not in this conversation nor in most conversations. We're talking about canceling customers here. Or employees, for that matter. US Military is many things, but not "the little guy". Second is conflating things that affect a businesses operation in concrete ways with abstract ethical transgressions. They're very different things. Half the US population voted for Trump, but I doubt you'll find a handful to support shitting in stores, or opening plane doors during flight. That's not a small difference, it's a 4-5 digits difference. > such as if the professor is teaching that people of color are less intelligent because of their skin color If he's a biology or psychology professor, then it's a factual error and he should be fired for it. If he's teaching physics, then it's at most an optics issue, and while he has a fair chance of being fired it'll be a cultural decision. In a different society an atheist may be fired for speaking his beliefs. I'll also note that you picked a rather heavy-handed example - most real life cases are far from being so openly racist. I could also say something about correlation vs causation, but that would be plain goading you :)
- zaarn 5y ago
  > Probably the worst is confusing the US Military with a coffeeshop customer. At most they'd be the supplier or employer, and like I said you're free not to buy from or work with people you don't like. That was never in doubt, not in this conversation nor in most conversations. We're talking about canceling customers here. Or employees, for that matter. Again, there isn't really a difference except which side of a business contract does the cancelling. > Second is conflating things that affect a businesses operation in concrete ways with abstract ethical transgressions. They're very different things. Half the US population voted for Trump, but I doubt you'll find a handful to support shitting in stores, or opening plane doors during flight. That's not a small difference, it's a 4-5 digits difference. I don't see why one of those is supposed to be some secret protected class. If you vote fascist, you ought to be thrown in jail IMO but that's off topic. A business should very well be allowed to deny supporting fascist customers. It doesn't matter how well supported an action was, a business should have the right to deny business to a customer or employee at will.

by zaarn 5y ago

radu_floricica 5y ago

You're really stretching the argument. Probably the worst is confusing the US Military with a coffeeshop customer. At most they'd be the supplier or employer, and like I said you're free not to buy from or work with people you don't like. That was never in doubt, not in this conversation nor in most conversations. We're talking about canceling customers here. Or employees, for that matter. US Military is many things, but not "the little guy". Second is conflating things that affect a businesses operation in concrete ways with abstract ethical transgressions. They're very different things. Half the US population voted for Trump, but I doubt you'll find a handful to support shitting in stores, or opening plane doors during flight. That's not a small difference, it's a 4-5 digits difference. > such as if the professor is teaching that people of color are less intelligent because of their skin color If he's a biology or psychology professor, then it's a factual error and he should be fired for it. If he's teaching physics, then it's at most an optics issue, and while he has a fair chance of being fired it'll be a cultural decision. In a different society an atheist may be fired for speaking his beliefs. I'll also note that you picked a rather heavy-handed example - most real life cases are far from being so openly racist. I could also say something about correlation vs causation, but that would be plain goading you :)

zaarn 5y ago
> Probably the worst is confusing the US Military with a coffeeshop customer. At most they'd be the supplier or employer, and like I said you're free not to buy from or work with people you don't like. That was never in doubt, not in this conversation nor in most conversations. We're talking about canceling customers here. Or employees, for that matter. Again, there isn't really a difference except which side of a business contract does the cancelling. > Second is conflating things that affect a businesses operation in concrete ways with abstract ethical transgressions. They're very different things. Half the US population voted for Trump, but I doubt you'll find a handful to support shitting in stores, or opening plane doors during flight. That's not a small difference, it's a 4-5 digits difference. I don't see why one of those is supposed to be some secret protected class. If you vote fascist, you ought to be thrown in jail IMO but that's off topic. A business should very well be allowed to deny supporting fascist customers. It doesn't matter how well supported an action was, a business should have the right to deny business to a customer or employee at will.