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This "state" you're referring to that gives us our "freedom" is essentially that "more powerful" other entity you speak of that has come around and subjugated u

by zo1 5y ago

This "state" you're referring to that gives us our "freedom" is essentially that "more powerful" other entity you speak of that has come around and subjugated us. We are already living in an society where "warlords" have claimed land and "enslaved" us to give them part of our labor for the "generous" protection and "rights" they have given us. The fact that we have something like voting and relative physical freedom to go wherever and not have to be physically forced to do things (debatable) doesn't change the fact that we are subjugated to something we don't consent to.

anticristi 5y ago
While your "state" might not be perfect, are you truly "enslaved"? I mean, there are alternatives, but they aren't better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film)
- Aerroon 5y ago
  The point he's getting at is that human rights don't stem from the government. You have them because you're human, not because an emperor in his divine mercy gave them to you. With or without government enforcement, you still have human rights.
  - zpeti 5y ago
    And this is what Americans usually believe, Europeans not so much. And as a European this makes me sad. I hate living somewhere where most people believe government allows them to do things rather than tells them what not to do. It’s a small difference but it’s important.
    - Kbelicius 5y ago
      As a European I find it shocking that there are people that believe that there is such a thing as rights that are independent of society.
    - anticristi 5y ago
      Not only Americans, but any nation that had to fight for its independence. Having a foreign power rule over you -- for whatever perception of "foreign" -- creates a culture of "us against the state", instead of "our state". Anyone from the Balkans here? :)
  - kcatskcolbdi 5y ago
    If you have them, but they are taken from you at will by those with the means to do so, in practice you have nothing at all.

by zo1 5y ago

anticristi 5y ago

While your "state" might not be perfect, are you truly "enslaved"? I mean, there are alternatives, but they aren't better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film)

Aerroon 5y ago
The point he's getting at is that human rights don't stem from the government. You have them because you're human, not because an emperor in his divine mercy gave them to you. With or without government enforcement, you still have human rights.
- zpeti 5y ago
  And this is what Americans usually believe, Europeans not so much. And as a European this makes me sad. I hate living somewhere where most people believe government allows them to do things rather than tells them what not to do. It’s a small difference but it’s important.
  - Kbelicius 5y ago
    As a European I find it shocking that there are people that believe that there is such a thing as rights that are independent of society.
  - anticristi 5y ago
    Not only Americans, but any nation that had to fight for its independence. Having a foreign power rule over you -- for whatever perception of "foreign" -- creates a culture of "us against the state", instead of "our state". Anyone from the Balkans here? :)
- kcatskcolbdi 5y ago
  If you have them, but they are taken from you at will by those with the means to do so, in practice you have nothing at all.