4 ms·

Genuine question - how do you get that 1 million figure?

wayoutthere 5y ago
It’s 800,000 direct civilian combat deaths and likely several times that from the ancillary dangers of war (starvation, land mines, etc). The designation of “non civilian combatant” was grossly overapplied (see OP about “he had a radio” or “he had an AK-47” as if every Afghan household didn’t have one after 40 years of war). https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/ https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/
- torstenvl 5y ago
  The cited source does not support the stated proposition. Your link says 335,000 civilians, and it counts all deaths, not just those caused by the U.S. I was directly involved in U.S. CIVCAS mitigation measures in a Daesh convoy engagement by U.S. air power in the summer of 2016. I cannot comment on anything that transpired within the classified space. However, there was substantial reporting on the discrepancy between the measures implemented by U.S. drone strikes during the engagement, and measures implemented by Iraqi helicopters during the engagement. I encourage you to think about what that discrepancy might mean, if true, about how you're using those numbers.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    Actual combatants have been estimated closer to 150,000 (the only numbers we have are DOD numbers which have been shown to be highly suspect whenever things have been leaked from people like Chelsea Manning).
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - zd123 5y ago
    I don’t think the guy is missing the point here. Looking at the breakdown: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2019/Direct%20War%20Deaths%20COW%20Estimate%20November%2013%202019%20FINAL.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20... I dont see how it can be seen as anything but a humanitarian disaster
zd123 5y ago
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2019/Direct%20War%20Deaths%20COW%20Estimate%20November%2013%202019%20FINAL.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20...
taway784 5y ago
There are many estimates, but the estimate in Iraq alone is 1/2 Million children deaths -- back in 1996. The US State Secretary Madeline Albright -- on video -- not only doesnt deny it but says it was worht the cost!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntsfiAXMEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntsfiAXMEE In the case of Iraq, the deaths were due to two reasons - President Bush 1's strategy to destroy civil infrastructure (water purification plants, sewage plants), which resulted in...bad water and mass deaths via disease - President Clinton's sanctions which disallowed almost everything as dual use and prevented critical relief, essentially starving society for 8+ years. The interview is from half-way thru the Clinton term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

It’s 800,000 direct civilian combat deaths and likely several times that from the ancillary dangers of war (starvation, land mines, etc). The designation of “non civilian combatant” was grossly overapplied (see OP about “he had a radio” or “he had an AK-47” as if every Afghan household didn’t have one after 40 years of war). https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/ https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/

torstenvl 5y ago
The cited source does not support the stated proposition. Your link says 335,000 civilians, and it counts all deaths, not just those caused by the U.S. I was directly involved in U.S. CIVCAS mitigation measures in a Daesh convoy engagement by U.S. air power in the summer of 2016. I cannot comment on anything that transpired within the classified space. However, there was substantial reporting on the discrepancy between the measures implemented by U.S. drone strikes during the engagement, and measures implemented by Iraqi helicopters during the engagement. I encourage you to think about what that discrepancy might mean, if true, about how you're using those numbers.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Actual combatants have been estimated closer to 150,000 (the only numbers we have are DOD numbers which have been shown to be highly suspect whenever things have been leaked from people like Chelsea Manning).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- zd123 5y ago
  I don’t think the guy is missing the point here. Looking at the breakdown: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2019/Direct%20War%20Deaths%20COW%20Estimate%20November%2013%202019%20FINAL.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20... I dont see how it can be seen as anything but a humanitarian disaster

zd123 5y ago

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2019/Direct%20War%20Deaths%20COW%20Estimate%20November%2013%202019%20FINAL.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20...

taway784 5y ago

There are many estimates, but the estimate in Iraq alone is 1/2 Million children deaths -- back in 1996. The US State Secretary Madeline Albright -- on video -- not only doesnt deny it but says it was worht the cost!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntsfiAXMEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntsfiAXMEE In the case of Iraq, the deaths were due to two reasons - President Bush 1's strategy to destroy civil infrastructure (water purification plants, sewage plants), which resulted in...bad water and mass deaths via disease - President Clinton's sanctions which disallowed almost everything as dual use and prevented critical relief, essentially starving society for 8+ years. The interview is from half-way thru the Clinton term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War