4 ms·

Aside from delusional Trump loyalists that have now flip-flopped and are praising the Taliban, most Americans overwhelmingly supported withdrawing years ago.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Firstly, any goal you support could be achieved wrongly by terrible means. I support stimulatinf the economy, but not by bringing back child labour Secondly, there has been a complete failure of leadership in rebuilding afganistan and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave. I just listened to the podcast with an afgan vet, he was there for 10 years. On the first year they shipped a hydroelectric turbine to install in a damn. On 10 year when he was leaving, the turbine was still sitting on the construction site, noone even unwrapped it.
- pjc50 5y ago
  Another 10 years would not have installed the turbine. > complete failure of leadership in rebuilding Afghanistan Agree. It's been a bipartisan failure with the aid of the media for two decades. But it's also an extremely hard problem, and it ties into an area that America is particularly bad at: state capacity. You can't build a government by being anti-government. > and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave Well, you can and they have. This is going to get a bunch of people killed, but that doesn't stop it happening this way, because that has basically zero traction with US voters.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    You could just support a bunch of preexisting local warlords instead of trying to build a national army. A lot of them probably don't like the Taliban any more than we do.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      Ah yes, the bastion of freedom: warlords. Not to say that this wouldn't work or is a bad idea! But the US would either have to drop the pretense that they're "liberating" Afghanistan or spin such a move harder than they've ever spun before. It was a lot easier during the Cold War when you could just call the Taliban "communist" to justify just about any military or covert action.
    - watwut 5y ago
      That is basically what happened and why army never had trus of many Afghans. It contained local warlords responsible for past atrocities and cruelty. Some of these were barely better then Taliban.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

Firstly, any goal you support could be achieved wrongly by terrible means. I support stimulatinf the economy, but not by bringing back child labour Secondly, there has been a complete failure of leadership in rebuilding afganistan and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave. I just listened to the podcast with an afgan vet, he was there for 10 years. On the first year they shipped a hydroelectric turbine to install in a damn. On 10 year when he was leaving, the turbine was still sitting on the construction site, noone even unwrapped it.

pjc50 5y ago
Another 10 years would not have installed the turbine. > complete failure of leadership in rebuilding Afghanistan Agree. It's been a bipartisan failure with the aid of the media for two decades. But it's also an extremely hard problem, and it ties into an area that America is particularly bad at: state capacity. You can't build a government by being anti-government. > and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave Well, you can and they have. This is going to get a bunch of people killed, but that doesn't stop it happening this way, because that has basically zero traction with US voters.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  You could just support a bunch of preexisting local warlords instead of trying to build a national army. A lot of them probably don't like the Taliban any more than we do.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    Ah yes, the bastion of freedom: warlords. Not to say that this wouldn't work or is a bad idea! But the US would either have to drop the pretense that they're "liberating" Afghanistan or spin such a move harder than they've ever spun before. It was a lot easier during the Cold War when you could just call the Taliban "communist" to justify just about any military or covert action.
  - watwut 5y ago
    That is basically what happened and why army never had trus of many Afghans. It contained local warlords responsible for past atrocities and cruelty. Some of these were barely better then Taliban.