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Is it cynical to think this was intentionally leaked to boost support for withdrawing from Afghanistan?

JohnWhigham 5y ago
Aside from delusional Trump loyalists that have now flip-flopped and are praising the Taliban, most Americans overwhelmingly supported withdrawing years ago.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Firstly, any goal you support could be achieved wrongly by terrible means. I support stimulatinf the economy, but not by bringing back child labour Secondly, there has been a complete failure of leadership in rebuilding afganistan and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave. I just listened to the podcast with an afgan vet, he was there for 10 years. On the first year they shipped a hydroelectric turbine to install in a damn. On 10 year when he was leaving, the turbine was still sitting on the construction site, noone even unwrapped it.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    Another 10 years would not have installed the turbine. > complete failure of leadership in rebuilding Afghanistan Agree. It's been a bipartisan failure with the aid of the media for two decades. But it's also an extremely hard problem, and it ties into an area that America is particularly bad at: state capacity. You can't build a government by being anti-government. > and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave Well, you can and they have. This is going to get a bunch of people killed, but that doesn't stop it happening this way, because that has basically zero traction with US voters.
    - fallingknife 5y ago
      You could just support a bunch of preexisting local warlords instead of trying to build a national army. A lot of them probably don't like the Taliban any more than we do.
      - AlexandrB 5y ago
        Ah yes, the bastion of freedom: warlords. Not to say that this wouldn't work or is a bad idea! But the US would either have to drop the pretense that they're "liberating" Afghanistan or spin such a move harder than they've ever spun before. It was a lot easier during the Cold War when you could just call the Taliban "communist" to justify just about any military or covert action.
      - watwut 5y ago
        That is basically what happened and why army never had trus of many Afghans. It contained local warlords responsible for past atrocities and cruelty. Some of these were barely better then Taliban.
guiriduro 5y ago
Is it cynical to think about all the rest of the suppressed material out of the public domain previously to reduce objections to maintaining a military involvement?
pvaldes 5y ago
Is very reasonable, in fact.
noisy_boy 5y ago
Entirely dismissing that possibility given the timing would be naive.
Borrible 5y ago
No, it isn't. It is realpolitik. Nasty game for nasty people. And it could lead to outrage and spontaneous attacks on civilians and the troops protecting them. Well done, whatever are the reasons for publishing it now, initiated by which player ever.
f6v 5y ago
Because spending trillions of $ on war instead of other things isn't enough.
Zenst 5y ago
A cynic would probably think this was intentionally leaked to stir up problems that will spill out into the west, leading towards a sentiment of history repeating itself. Though sometimes the timing of things are just coincidences as many a horoscope has surely taught us about connecting dots that are not connected.
belorn 5y ago
The military method to define any male (and sometimes women) above a certain age as an combatant was leaked 2010. This is simply a reminder that the same indiscriminating warfare are continuing. If anything this article reminds me of domestic terrorists that define a certain demographic as being enemy combatants and then goes to indiscriminate killing spree. The major difference seems to be that the military personal who actually operated the drones know that what they are doing is wrong, otherwise the room would not have gone silent when the two civilians and their child got killed. Then when it comes to write the report the two civilians becomes combatants and the killing get internally justified.
- loonster 5y ago
  In certain areas of operation, yes. Anyone found in that area is considered hostile. I have not seen anything that would imply that every male in the entire country is considered an enemy combatant.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
scoopertrooper 5y ago
You think the U.S. government leaked videos of themselves bombing afghan civilians in the middle of tense negotiations with the Taliban?
radu_floricica 5y ago
Scrolled through the comments to upvote this, or write it if it wasn't already. If it's just leaked it's pretty obvious. If it's older, I still suspect it was dug up again on purpose, but it's less glaring.
yardie 5y ago
The withdrawal doesn't need more support. The public has been calling for withdrawal for years now. It's already popular. The only ones who still support staying are politicians, military suppliers, and the media.

Aside from delusional Trump loyalists that have now flip-flopped and are praising the Taliban, most Americans overwhelmingly supported withdrawing years ago.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Firstly, any goal you support could be achieved wrongly by terrible means. I support stimulatinf the economy, but not by bringing back child labour Secondly, there has been a complete failure of leadership in rebuilding afganistan and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave. I just listened to the podcast with an afgan vet, he was there for 10 years. On the first year they shipped a hydroelectric turbine to install in a damn. On 10 year when he was leaving, the turbine was still sitting on the construction site, noone even unwrapped it.
- pjc50 5y ago
  Another 10 years would not have installed the turbine. > complete failure of leadership in rebuilding Afghanistan Agree. It's been a bipartisan failure with the aid of the media for two decades. But it's also an extremely hard problem, and it ties into an area that America is particularly bad at: state capacity. You can't build a government by being anti-government. > and in communicating to the public that you can't just pack up and leave Well, you can and they have. This is going to get a bunch of people killed, but that doesn't stop it happening this way, because that has basically zero traction with US voters.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    You could just support a bunch of preexisting local warlords instead of trying to build a national army. A lot of them probably don't like the Taliban any more than we do.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      Ah yes, the bastion of freedom: warlords. Not to say that this wouldn't work or is a bad idea! But the US would either have to drop the pretense that they're "liberating" Afghanistan or spin such a move harder than they've ever spun before. It was a lot easier during the Cold War when you could just call the Taliban "communist" to justify just about any military or covert action.
    - watwut 5y ago
      That is basically what happened and why army never had trus of many Afghans. It contained local warlords responsible for past atrocities and cruelty. Some of these were barely better then Taliban.

guiriduro 5y ago

Is it cynical to think about all the rest of the suppressed material out of the public domain previously to reduce objections to maintaining a military involvement?

pvaldes 5y ago

Is very reasonable, in fact.

noisy_boy 5y ago

Entirely dismissing that possibility given the timing would be naive.

Borrible 5y ago

No, it isn't. It is realpolitik. Nasty game for nasty people. And it could lead to outrage and spontaneous attacks on civilians and the troops protecting them. Well done, whatever are the reasons for publishing it now, initiated by which player ever.

f6v 5y ago

Because spending trillions of $ on war instead of other things isn't enough.

Zenst 5y ago

A cynic would probably think this was intentionally leaked to stir up problems that will spill out into the west, leading towards a sentiment of history repeating itself. Though sometimes the timing of things are just coincidences as many a horoscope has surely taught us about connecting dots that are not connected.

belorn 5y ago

The military method to define any male (and sometimes women) above a certain age as an combatant was leaked 2010. This is simply a reminder that the same indiscriminating warfare are continuing. If anything this article reminds me of domestic terrorists that define a certain demographic as being enemy combatants and then goes to indiscriminate killing spree. The major difference seems to be that the military personal who actually operated the drones know that what they are doing is wrong, otherwise the room would not have gone silent when the two civilians and their child got killed. Then when it comes to write the report the two civilians becomes combatants and the killing get internally justified.

loonster 5y ago
In certain areas of operation, yes. Anyone found in that area is considered hostile. I have not seen anything that would imply that every male in the entire country is considered an enemy combatant.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

scoopertrooper 5y ago

You think the U.S. government leaked videos of themselves bombing afghan civilians in the middle of tense negotiations with the Taliban?

radu_floricica 5y ago

Scrolled through the comments to upvote this, or write it if it wasn't already. If it's just leaked it's pretty obvious. If it's older, I still suspect it was dug up again on purpose, but it's less glaring.

yardie 5y ago

The withdrawal doesn't need more support. The public has been calling for withdrawal for years now. It's already popular. The only ones who still support staying are politicians, military suppliers, and the media.