7 ms·

I know it’s a HN cliché to comment on this, but it’s also true: I went several links deep, then looked at the homepage and the FAQ, and still have no idea what

I know it’s a HN cliché to comment on this, but it’s also true: I went several links deep, then looked at the homepage and the FAQ, and still have no idea what this product is or who it’s for.

notRobot 5y ago
Doesn't apply here. From the homepage: ---------- What can I do with Turing Pi? Home server (homelab) and cloud apps hosting Learn Kubernetes, Docker Swarm, Serverless, Microservices on bare metal Cloud-native apps testing environment Learn concepts of distributed Machine Learning apps Prototype and learn cluster applications, parallel computing, and distributed computing concepts Host K8S, K3S, Minecraft, Plex, Owncloud, Nextcloud, Seafile, Minio, Tensorflow
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  That says what it is for, but not what it is.
  - moonbug 5y ago
    Ironically I thought just the opposite.
- codeflo 5y ago
  No, I saw that, I just don’t understand it. I can do all of that with a PC. Is this a PC? A more powerful Raspberry Pi? What does the ability to “learn concepts” even mean? I learn concepts from books, what does the hardware do?
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    This board is a very convenient way (maybe the most convenient one I've seen) to setup a bare-metal cluster of computers. Not just multiple cores, not just multiple VMs, four entirely separate ARM computers communicating over a real hardware network. One Alternative to boards like this is to connect multiple SBCs together, with all the wiring, and also some mechanical support. Another (more powerful alternative) is to install some kind of server rack at home. More expensive, too. Using multiple virtual machines is also not quite the same. What people use it for? Mostly to learn how to deal with problems that arise from managing a cluster and running software on it. Can you build a website that tolerates getting one of the nodes or hard drives turned off? Some people use such solutions for productive things, like a Home Server, but a store-bought NAS or a single PC is usually more performant. A PI cluster might be less power hungry in some scenarios. Some people use them as build/test platforms for code that should run on ARM architectures. Others have used them to host a website from their internet connection (I know...). Some people just have fun tinkering with such things....
  - loxias 5y ago
    Don't worry, it's not just you. I learn concepts by building and tinkering (and reading specifications), so you'd think I'm a target market. But when I wanted to get some hands on experience with a cluster file system, for a job, I spun up a cluster of 5 vms on... my normal computer. 4 seems like a very useless number to me. 4 raspis is more expensive and less useful than a used dual xeon on ebay. I could imagine maybe there's a use for something with 16 slots? or at least 8? But I don't get these cluster boards (or, for that matter, storage enclosures!) which presume I can do something fundamentally different with 4 small computes than 1.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      > maybe there's a use for something with 16 slots? or at least 8? You can always connect 2 or 4 of these together. But I understand what you mean. A project I want to build one day, when I have the time and learn ethernet interfacing through PCB's is to build a single board cluster of Octavo SoM modules. They are individually inexpensive and it'd be relatively easy to build a board with a dozen of them connected to a switch chip.
    - rwmj 5y ago
      The original Turing Pi had 7 slots (wish it had even more!). I do feel that was better, because it really forces you to manage it as a cluster. Spinning up VMs is sort of fine, but they don't have quite the performance or management characteristics of a real cluster. The network is slow, the nodes individually are not very powerful, you have to work out how to image each physical machine, nodes break or have I/O errors, ...
    - chubot 5y ago
      Yeah exactly, my first thought is that a normal multicore PC is going to be not just more powerful, but more power efficient and cost efficient. It's a fun idea but I wouldn't be interested unless they publish some comparisons. Basically everything here can be done on a single multicore computer (which is already a distributed system in many respects): https://turingpi.com/12-amazing-raspberry-pi-cluster-use-cases/ https://turingpi.com/12-amazing-raspberry-pi-cluster-use-cas...
  - rwmj 5y ago
    I wonder if this video helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zXG4ySy1m8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zXG4ySy1m8 Jeff Geerling "Why would you build a Raspberry Pi Cluster?"
gorgoiler 5y ago
Their two use cases are edge infra — horizontally scaled server applications on a power and cabinet space budget — or as a workstation for workflows that can benefit from distributed compute power. I could imagine the latter might be handy if you’re doing CAD with rendering in the Amazon rainforest and don’t have 5A of power for x86_64 + GPU. Maybe. It definitely seems like a solution in search of a problem. Happy to be proven wrong though. See “Use Cases”, here: https://turingpi.com/turing-pi-2-announcement/ https://turingpi.com/turing-pi-2-announcement/
- rbanffy 5y ago
  There's a company here in Ireland, Cainthus, that does workplace wellbeing for dairy cows. It does so by continuously analysing video feeds and detecting behaviors that could indicate stress or other environmental factors that make the cows unhappy. Management could be done by the RPi while the inference could run on one or more Jetson boards. These little machines are very friendly for embedded work.
FeepingCreature 5y ago
Raspberry Pi has a compute module version: CM4, which is basically a pared down RPi4 with almost no IO options. This is a board for CM4 (and, apparently, NVidia Jetson) that lets you power, network and communicate with several CM4 boards in a cluster setup.
- vultour 5y ago
  But... why? Every other thing doesn't work on ARM, so what's the point of a rpi cluster?
evgen 5y ago
Short version is that it is a custom board into which you can plug multiple RPi compute modules (and now some Jetson modules) to create a miniature version of a blade server system; this board is the backplane of that compute module blade system. Use it to create your own edge cluster system I guess; it does not seem particularly useful beyond being a neat curiosity when you put RPi CMs into it, but as a GPU/CUDA node filled with Jetson modules there is some interesting possibility there for people looking for a cheap local cluster for training ML models.
- kreetx 5y ago
  And "RPi CMs" are Raspberry Pi Compute Modules, so apparently these: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4/?variant=raspberry-pi-cm4001000 https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4/?varia... Ironically, the adapter images that you use to plug in the RPis (which might give you a clue) don't currently load on the Turing Pi homepage.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  4x Jetson nano would cost $240, the Turing board will probably cost around $100 (it looks like they haven't decided yet) and you get 1,88 tflops; you can add 50 bucks and get GTX 1060 with 4.4 tflops and you can play games.
  - dnadler 5y ago
    Not sure that's quite a fair comparison, because you'll need quite a bit more hardware to use the GTX 1060, and I think that the Turing board + Jetson setup would be all-inclusive (except a power supply and chassis, I suppose)? I could be wrong about that though.
  - platz 5y ago
    But can you do a 4x/cluster SYN flood with a GTX 1060
- datameta 5y ago
  Agreed save for the caveat that a 4 RPi compute system could actually do quite a bit of Edge ML. Even a single RPi is enough for >15fps image recog.
mattowen_uk 5y ago
I think I'll wait for (and enjoy!) the obligatory Jeff Geerling[1] video[2] on it. -- [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=geerlingguy https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=geerlingguy [2] https://www.youtube.com/c/jeffgeerling https://www.youtube.com/c/jeffgeerling
- ta988 5y ago
  oh I didn't know he had a youtube channel. I knew him through his excellent Ansible modules.
  - geerlingguy 5y ago
    I'm also here on a daily basis ;) I'm hoping to get my hands on a board soon... I think they're still brushing up the prototype though, trying to get it to a more final production state.
    - sponaugle 5y ago
      Excellent. Your videos on the various Pi clusters have been fantastic. I'm looking forward to your review of this new updated board.
gtvwill 5y ago
They look to be great devices for edge compute. I can slap a Jetson in one slot and pi's in the other three. Cheap, easy to fix, no expensive support contracts. I'll be looking at throwing them out into rural locations/farms. I can get x86 nucs but tbh they lack the customisability in this has. This is awesome for industrial applications.
rbanffy 5y ago
It's kind of this: https://blog.fosketts.net/2012/02/21/cubix-ers-blade-server-system/ https://blog.fosketts.net/2012/02/21/cubix-ers-blade-server-... but for Raspberry Pi's and Nvidia Jetsons.
rwmj 5y ago
I have the earlier 7 node version which runs Kubernetes, following Jeff Geerling's guide (https://www.youtube.com/c/JeffGeerling https://www.youtube.com/c/JeffGeerling). Actually I wish they hadn't reduced the number of slots to 4, because part of the "fun" is dealing with the fact that with 7 nodes, using ssh and individual node management is no way to manage a cluster, so you're forced to treat it as a real cluster. I feel with 4, I might be tempted to individually manage each node. But I also understand why changes in the Pi Compute Module 4 made this necessary. The CM4 is physically much larger than the CM3. Edit: Actually my real wish is for a compute module that has more I/O channels. I would love to build a hypercube-style supercomputer (like the Meiko Computing Surface) but these require 5+ high speed I/O interconnects say to build a 32+ node cluster. I wonder if PCIe offers a solution?
- sponaugle 5y ago
  I too would be interested in playing around with more processor to processor interconnects. Just for fun I built a 16 way SAMD21 board that used the serial interconnects to make a hypercube arrangement and it was very cool to play with. It would be possible to build an interconnect over PCIe, but of course it might just be better to use a 10g ethernet PCIe interface chip for each node and a local to PCB network.
mshockwave 5y ago
same here, their website should have a one-line description of what this board is/for. Though I did find a short answer on potential use cases from FAQ in one of the pages (I think it's the Turing Pi V2 product page?)

I know it’s a HN cliché to comment on this, but it’s also true: I went several links deep, then looked at the homepage and the FAQ, and still have no idea what this product is or who it’s for.

notRobot 5y ago

Doesn't apply here. From the homepage: ---------- What can I do with Turing Pi? Home server (homelab) and cloud apps hosting Learn Kubernetes, Docker Swarm, Serverless, Microservices on bare metal Cloud-native apps testing environment Learn concepts of distributed Machine Learning apps Prototype and learn cluster applications, parallel computing, and distributed computing concepts Host K8S, K3S, Minecraft, Plex, Owncloud, Nextcloud, Seafile, Minio, Tensorflow

FeepingCreature 5y ago
That says what it is for, but not what it is.
- moonbug 5y ago
  Ironically I thought just the opposite.
codeflo 5y ago
No, I saw that, I just don’t understand it. I can do all of that with a PC. Is this a PC? A more powerful Raspberry Pi? What does the ability to “learn concepts” even mean? I learn concepts from books, what does the hardware do?
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  This board is a very convenient way (maybe the most convenient one I've seen) to setup a bare-metal cluster of computers. Not just multiple cores, not just multiple VMs, four entirely separate ARM computers communicating over a real hardware network. One Alternative to boards like this is to connect multiple SBCs together, with all the wiring, and also some mechanical support. Another (more powerful alternative) is to install some kind of server rack at home. More expensive, too. Using multiple virtual machines is also not quite the same. What people use it for? Mostly to learn how to deal with problems that arise from managing a cluster and running software on it. Can you build a website that tolerates getting one of the nodes or hard drives turned off? Some people use such solutions for productive things, like a Home Server, but a store-bought NAS or a single PC is usually more performant. A PI cluster might be less power hungry in some scenarios. Some people use them as build/test platforms for code that should run on ARM architectures. Others have used them to host a website from their internet connection (I know...). Some people just have fun tinkering with such things....
- loxias 5y ago
  Don't worry, it's not just you. I learn concepts by building and tinkering (and reading specifications), so you'd think I'm a target market. But when I wanted to get some hands on experience with a cluster file system, for a job, I spun up a cluster of 5 vms on... my normal computer. 4 seems like a very useless number to me. 4 raspis is more expensive and less useful than a used dual xeon on ebay. I could imagine maybe there's a use for something with 16 slots? or at least 8? But I don't get these cluster boards (or, for that matter, storage enclosures!) which presume I can do something fundamentally different with 4 small computes than 1.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    > maybe there's a use for something with 16 slots? or at least 8? You can always connect 2 or 4 of these together. But I understand what you mean. A project I want to build one day, when I have the time and learn ethernet interfacing through PCB's is to build a single board cluster of Octavo SoM modules. They are individually inexpensive and it'd be relatively easy to build a board with a dozen of them connected to a switch chip.
  - rwmj 5y ago
    The original Turing Pi had 7 slots (wish it had even more!). I do feel that was better, because it really forces you to manage it as a cluster. Spinning up VMs is sort of fine, but they don't have quite the performance or management characteristics of a real cluster. The network is slow, the nodes individually are not very powerful, you have to work out how to image each physical machine, nodes break or have I/O errors, ...
  - chubot 5y ago
    Yeah exactly, my first thought is that a normal multicore PC is going to be not just more powerful, but more power efficient and cost efficient. It's a fun idea but I wouldn't be interested unless they publish some comparisons. Basically everything here can be done on a single multicore computer (which is already a distributed system in many respects): https://turingpi.com/12-amazing-raspberry-pi-cluster-use-cases/ https://turingpi.com/12-amazing-raspberry-pi-cluster-use-cas...
- rwmj 5y ago
  I wonder if this video helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zXG4ySy1m8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zXG4ySy1m8 Jeff Geerling "Why would you build a Raspberry Pi Cluster?"

gorgoiler 5y ago

Their two use cases are edge infra — horizontally scaled server applications on a power and cabinet space budget — or as a workstation for workflows that can benefit from distributed compute power. I could imagine the latter might be handy if you’re doing CAD with rendering in the Amazon rainforest and don’t have 5A of power for x86_64 + GPU. Maybe. It definitely seems like a solution in search of a problem. Happy to be proven wrong though. See “Use Cases”, here: https://turingpi.com/turing-pi-2-announcement/ https://turingpi.com/turing-pi-2-announcement/

rbanffy 5y ago
There's a company here in Ireland, Cainthus, that does workplace wellbeing for dairy cows. It does so by continuously analysing video feeds and detecting behaviors that could indicate stress or other environmental factors that make the cows unhappy. Management could be done by the RPi while the inference could run on one or more Jetson boards. These little machines are very friendly for embedded work.

FeepingCreature 5y ago

Raspberry Pi has a compute module version: CM4, which is basically a pared down RPi4 with almost no IO options. This is a board for CM4 (and, apparently, NVidia Jetson) that lets you power, network and communicate with several CM4 boards in a cluster setup.

vultour 5y ago
But... why? Every other thing doesn't work on ARM, so what's the point of a rpi cluster?

evgen 5y ago

Short version is that it is a custom board into which you can plug multiple RPi compute modules (and now some Jetson modules) to create a miniature version of a blade server system; this board is the backplane of that compute module blade system. Use it to create your own edge cluster system I guess; it does not seem particularly useful beyond being a neat curiosity when you put RPi CMs into it, but as a GPU/CUDA node filled with Jetson modules there is some interesting possibility there for people looking for a cheap local cluster for training ML models.

kreetx 5y ago
And "RPi CMs" are Raspberry Pi Compute Modules, so apparently these: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4/?variant=raspberry-pi-cm4001000 https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4/?varia... Ironically, the adapter images that you use to plug in the RPis (which might give you a clue) don't currently load on the Turing Pi homepage.
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
4x Jetson nano would cost $240, the Turing board will probably cost around $100 (it looks like they haven't decided yet) and you get 1,88 tflops; you can add 50 bucks and get GTX 1060 with 4.4 tflops and you can play games.
- dnadler 5y ago
  Not sure that's quite a fair comparison, because you'll need quite a bit more hardware to use the GTX 1060, and I think that the Turing board + Jetson setup would be all-inclusive (except a power supply and chassis, I suppose)? I could be wrong about that though.
- platz 5y ago
  But can you do a 4x/cluster SYN flood with a GTX 1060
datameta 5y ago
Agreed save for the caveat that a 4 RPi compute system could actually do quite a bit of Edge ML. Even a single RPi is enough for >15fps image recog.

mattowen_uk 5y ago

I think I'll wait for (and enjoy!) the obligatory Jeff Geerling[1] video[2] on it. -- [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=geerlingguy https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=geerlingguy [2] https://www.youtube.com/c/jeffgeerling https://www.youtube.com/c/jeffgeerling

ta988 5y ago
oh I didn't know he had a youtube channel. I knew him through his excellent Ansible modules.
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  I'm also here on a daily basis ;) I'm hoping to get my hands on a board soon... I think they're still brushing up the prototype though, trying to get it to a more final production state.
  - sponaugle 5y ago
    Excellent. Your videos on the various Pi clusters have been fantastic. I'm looking forward to your review of this new updated board.

gtvwill 5y ago

They look to be great devices for edge compute. I can slap a Jetson in one slot and pi's in the other three. Cheap, easy to fix, no expensive support contracts. I'll be looking at throwing them out into rural locations/farms. I can get x86 nucs but tbh they lack the customisability in this has. This is awesome for industrial applications.

rbanffy 5y ago

It's kind of this: https://blog.fosketts.net/2012/02/21/cubix-ers-blade-server-system/ https://blog.fosketts.net/2012/02/21/cubix-ers-blade-server-... but for Raspberry Pi's and Nvidia Jetsons.

rwmj 5y ago

I have the earlier 7 node version which runs Kubernetes, following Jeff Geerling's guide (https://www.youtube.com/c/JeffGeerling https://www.youtube.com/c/JeffGeerling). Actually I wish they hadn't reduced the number of slots to 4, because part of the "fun" is dealing with the fact that with 7 nodes, using ssh and individual node management is no way to manage a cluster, so you're forced to treat it as a real cluster. I feel with 4, I might be tempted to individually manage each node. But I also understand why changes in the Pi Compute Module 4 made this necessary. The CM4 is physically much larger than the CM3. Edit: Actually my real wish is for a compute module that has more I/O channels. I would love to build a hypercube-style supercomputer (like the Meiko Computing Surface) but these require 5+ high speed I/O interconnects say to build a 32+ node cluster. I wonder if PCIe offers a solution?

sponaugle 5y ago
I too would be interested in playing around with more processor to processor interconnects. Just for fun I built a 16 way SAMD21 board that used the serial interconnects to make a hypercube arrangement and it was very cool to play with. It would be possible to build an interconnect over PCIe, but of course it might just be better to use a 10g ethernet PCIe interface chip for each node and a local to PCB network.

mshockwave 5y ago

same here, their website should have a one-line description of what this board is/for. Though I did find a short answer on potential use cases from FAQ in one of the pages (I think it's the Turing Pi V2 product page?)