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Lest you think this is unique to India, here is a similar story from France: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/french-woman-spends-three-years-tryi

Lest you think this is unique to India, here is a similar story from France: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/french-woman-spends-three-years-trying-to-prove-she-is-not-dead https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/french-woman-s...

cmeacham98 5y ago
I'm sure this can (and does) happen basically anywhere, but according to this article one state in India alone has 40k ""dead"" people, so the scale is way different.
- quadrifoliate 5y ago
  > I'm sure this can (and does) happen basically anywhere, but according to this article one state in India alone has 40k "dead" people, so the scale is way different. India has about 20 times the population of France. So if it's normal for something to happen to 2k people in France, then that alone scales up to 40k people in India.
  - Retr0id 5y ago
    Uttar Pradesh has a population of "only" 240M, about 3.5x that of France.
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    Is there any indication that there are two thousand cases in France, though? So far in this discussion we’ve seen evidence of one.
    - quadrifoliate 5y ago
      No, it's certainly a much bigger problem in India than France. The intent was just to emphasize that “just one state in India” is not a small / low population place, but comparable to larger European countries. I did that pretty badly though. To point out another mistake I made, I forgot to compare the population of the state alone v/s France – which is 3.5x, not 20x (as another commenter says [1]). So the equivalent case for France would be ~10k such cases, which would hopefully be reported about more widely. -------------------------------------------- [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28299098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28299098
Jyaif 5y ago
In this case, the women allegedly played dead to avoid paying a 14000 euros judgment against her.
- ArnoVW 5y ago
  The article says that when the case against her didn't pan out for the litigant, they launched a new case, stating that this time they were attacking her estate as she was dead. How this statement in court filings resulted in her being declared dead the article does not state. I don't remember reading anywhere that she was at fault, for any of it.
tasogare 5y ago
The article speaks of 40,000 cases in just one Indian state vs one case in France. It's really not comparable. That being said the French administration is particularly infuriating and being locked out of everything because "opening bank account requires a proof of residence" coupled to "you need a check (thus bank account) to get your university dormitory room" can definitely happens. And while honest citizens are easily screwed it doesn't even remotely stop fraud which is massive, with a billion of euros scammed out of the wealthfare every year (https://www.google.fr/amp/s/lexpansion.lexpress.fr/actualite-economique/ces-trois-chiffres-qui-illustrent-l-ampleur-de-la-fraude-sociale-en-france_2134319.amp.html https://www.google.fr/amp/s/lexpansion.lexpress.fr/actualite...)
- Bayart 5y ago
  In France the problem with fraud and excess registrations has got to do with data segregation. Files can't legally be cross-referenced between the ID system, the fiscal system, the healthcare system and so on. That leads to a lot of cruft. In Japan they've got tons of dead people still legally alive, it's a pretty common issue. As for bank accounts, you need KYC everywhere, at least in Europe. I don't see how France is specifically problematic in that respect.
- seszett 5y ago
  I just want to say that these are unrelated: opening a bank account doesn't actually require a proof of residence in France by law, it's the banks themselves that often require it (but when you move abroad they are generally happy to update your address without proof), needing a check for renting is absolutely infuriating but also not a legal requirement, only something private landlords usually ask (publicly subsided housing and student accommodation organisations that regularly see foreign students generally allow other means of guarantee). So these are entirely problems with private actors, not the French administration - you will find that the French administration is often very helpful when you need to pay things to them, most means of payment are possible, foreign credit cards are no problem for example, and they even take American Express for paying fines. And wealthfare fraud is not conducted with checks, although it might require false proofs of residence.

cmeacham98 5y ago

I'm sure this can (and does) happen basically anywhere, but according to this article one state in India alone has 40k ""dead"" people, so the scale is way different.

quadrifoliate 5y ago
> I'm sure this can (and does) happen basically anywhere, but according to this article one state in India alone has 40k "dead" people, so the scale is way different. India has about 20 times the population of France. So if it's normal for something to happen to 2k people in France, then that alone scales up to 40k people in India.
- Retr0id 5y ago
  Uttar Pradesh has a population of "only" 240M, about 3.5x that of France.
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  Is there any indication that there are two thousand cases in France, though? So far in this discussion we’ve seen evidence of one.
  - quadrifoliate 5y ago
    No, it's certainly a much bigger problem in India than France. The intent was just to emphasize that “just one state in India” is not a small / low population place, but comparable to larger European countries. I did that pretty badly though. To point out another mistake I made, I forgot to compare the population of the state alone v/s France – which is 3.5x, not 20x (as another commenter says [1]). So the equivalent case for France would be ~10k such cases, which would hopefully be reported about more widely. -------------------------------------------- [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28299098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28299098

Jyaif 5y ago

In this case, the women allegedly played dead to avoid paying a 14000 euros judgment against her.

ArnoVW 5y ago
The article says that when the case against her didn't pan out for the litigant, they launched a new case, stating that this time they were attacking her estate as she was dead. How this statement in court filings resulted in her being declared dead the article does not state. I don't remember reading anywhere that she was at fault, for any of it.

tasogare 5y ago

The article speaks of 40,000 cases in just one Indian state vs one case in France. It's really not comparable. That being said the French administration is particularly infuriating and being locked out of everything because "opening bank account requires a proof of residence" coupled to "you need a check (thus bank account) to get your university dormitory room" can definitely happens. And while honest citizens are easily screwed it doesn't even remotely stop fraud which is massive, with a billion of euros scammed out of the wealthfare every year (https://www.google.fr/amp/s/lexpansion.lexpress.fr/actualite-economique/ces-trois-chiffres-qui-illustrent-l-ampleur-de-la-fraude-sociale-en-france_2134319.amp.html https://www.google.fr/amp/s/lexpansion.lexpress.fr/actualite...)

Bayart 5y ago
In France the problem with fraud and excess registrations has got to do with data segregation. Files can't legally be cross-referenced between the ID system, the fiscal system, the healthcare system and so on. That leads to a lot of cruft. In Japan they've got tons of dead people still legally alive, it's a pretty common issue. As for bank accounts, you need KYC everywhere, at least in Europe. I don't see how France is specifically problematic in that respect.
seszett 5y ago
I just want to say that these are unrelated: opening a bank account doesn't actually require a proof of residence in France by law, it's the banks themselves that often require it (but when you move abroad they are generally happy to update your address without proof), needing a check for renting is absolutely infuriating but also not a legal requirement, only something private landlords usually ask (publicly subsided housing and student accommodation organisations that regularly see foreign students generally allow other means of guarantee). So these are entirely problems with private actors, not the French administration - you will find that the French administration is often very helpful when you need to pay things to them, most means of payment are possible, foreign credit cards are no problem for example, and they even take American Express for paying fines. And wealthfare fraud is not conducted with checks, although it might require false proofs of residence.