4 ms·

Assuming you aren't one of the very few people on earth that make those decisions (made obvious by your choice of phone earlier), then saying your pet theory is

by cschep 5y ago

Assuming you aren't one of the very few people on earth that make those decisions (made obvious by your choice of phone earlier), then saying your pet theory is real and obvious.. is unhelpful. I would posit (as the most profitable company on earth) that the reason Apple makes iPhones they way they do is simply because they sell better to normal consumers. If you carry a phone based on which explosive gasses it can operate near, you are an extreme outlier when it comes to consumer behavior. Perhaps the things that are "real and obvious" to you.. aren't.

throwaway2048 5y ago
Just because something or someone is successful doesn't mean all decisions that are made are optimal, close to optimal, or even not an active detriment. The famous example is people conflating Steve Jobs being an asshole with being successful.
- kaba0 5y ago
  I generally agree with you, but in this generic case, phones are actually truly packed to the max. Similarly to how you could easily fix your older car with just a few tools, modern engines are so complex that such home-twinkering is impossible. Phones go in the direction of having less and less separate parts, which is bad from a repairability pov, but the reason why these gigantic screen sizes are the new norm is also the side-effect of having to put n cameras, 5G, a huge battery, LiDAR and what not into a comparatively small body, while at the same time making it dust and water proof.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    Yes, but those are all choices, and they're all vendor-driven. It's not users demanding these things - users just select from what's available on the market. And here, it's not even the case of all those weird nerds complaining about missing headphone jack. Go poll normies about screen sizes. Regular people complaining about phones being too large is pretty much a meme now. (Engineering-wise, phones do get thermal advantage from the current form factor trends - thinner but larger -> more surface area. But I suspect it's more than compensated by the extra heat from the larger screen.)
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
      Apple released a smaller phone called the Mini and it only makes up 5% of their sales: https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/15/iphone-12-line-accounted-for-63-of-us-iphone-sales-in-q3-iphone-12-mini-has-5-share/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/15/iphone-12-line-accounted-for-... Those are the revealed preferences of millions of customers. How many people did you poll?
      - ulucs 5y ago
        A smaller underpowered phone. You aren't calculating the effect of phone size correctly.
        turtlebits 5y ago
        Other than screen resolution and smaller battery (due to the size difference), the 12 mini and the 12 have the exact same specs.
        fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
        You might be thinking of the iPhone SE, which is the budget offering that’s almost as small as the Mini and has lower-end specs.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        Not only that but the 12 Pro Max sells substantially better than the 12 Pro, according to the chart.
    - mrgordon 5y ago
      Most people I know keep buying bigger phones even though smaller ones from the same companies exist now
  - 8ytecoder 5y ago
    Agreed. It's like saying mid-engine cars are intentionally made complex to repair to make more money of service whereas it's more likely that the primary driving factor is better performance & handling and the extra service revenue is an added benefit.
Spooky23 5y ago
In this case, I carried a phone that works outdoors in typical field conditions, including high heat, cold, and high background noise. iPhones are designed with assumptions that make them inappropriate for outdoor work — they have an operating range that leads to shutdown in outer pockets in the winter or in hot summer conditions. With respect to the warranty and accessory stuff, I spent several years in that part of the hardware business — a product like AppleCare has 70% margins at retail (minimum), and unbranded cases identical to Apple branded sell for 60-80% less at retail. Am I wrong about Apple’s abilities to manufacture durable products with different design goals? Maybe, but I doubt it. MacBook Pros are a great example, when transitioning to unibody design, the MacBook lost replaceable batteries and other components, in exchange for a more structurally rigid frame and a very marginal weight/thickness savings. What they did achieve is a higher margin design by focusing on production efficiency and an attempt to push higher service costs to the consumer. (Which partially failed with the defective keyboards) The engineers produced a product that met its design goals, with the exception of the garbage keyboard.

by cschep 5y ago

throwaway2048 5y ago

Just because something or someone is successful doesn't mean all decisions that are made are optimal, close to optimal, or even not an active detriment. The famous example is people conflating Steve Jobs being an asshole with being successful.

kaba0 5y ago
I generally agree with you, but in this generic case, phones are actually truly packed to the max. Similarly to how you could easily fix your older car with just a few tools, modern engines are so complex that such home-twinkering is impossible. Phones go in the direction of having less and less separate parts, which is bad from a repairability pov, but the reason why these gigantic screen sizes are the new norm is also the side-effect of having to put n cameras, 5G, a huge battery, LiDAR and what not into a comparatively small body, while at the same time making it dust and water proof.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  Yes, but those are all choices, and they're all vendor-driven. It's not users demanding these things - users just select from what's available on the market. And here, it's not even the case of all those weird nerds complaining about missing headphone jack. Go poll normies about screen sizes. Regular people complaining about phones being too large is pretty much a meme now. (Engineering-wise, phones do get thermal advantage from the current form factor trends - thinner but larger -> more surface area. But I suspect it's more than compensated by the extra heat from the larger screen.)
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
    Apple released a smaller phone called the Mini and it only makes up 5% of their sales: https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/15/iphone-12-line-accounted-for-63-of-us-iphone-sales-in-q3-iphone-12-mini-has-5-share/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/15/iphone-12-line-accounted-for-... Those are the revealed preferences of millions of customers. How many people did you poll?
    - ulucs 5y ago
      A smaller underpowered phone. You aren't calculating the effect of phone size correctly.
      - turtlebits 5y ago
        Other than screen resolution and smaller battery (due to the size difference), the 12 mini and the 12 have the exact same specs.
      - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
        You might be thinking of the iPhone SE, which is the budget offering that’s almost as small as the Mini and has lower-end specs.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      Not only that but the 12 Pro Max sells substantially better than the 12 Pro, according to the chart.
  - mrgordon 5y ago
    Most people I know keep buying bigger phones even though smaller ones from the same companies exist now
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  Agreed. It's like saying mid-engine cars are intentionally made complex to repair to make more money of service whereas it's more likely that the primary driving factor is better performance & handling and the extra service revenue is an added benefit.

Spooky23 5y ago

In this case, I carried a phone that works outdoors in typical field conditions, including high heat, cold, and high background noise. iPhones are designed with assumptions that make them inappropriate for outdoor work — they have an operating range that leads to shutdown in outer pockets in the winter or in hot summer conditions. With respect to the warranty and accessory stuff, I spent several years in that part of the hardware business — a product like AppleCare has 70% margins at retail (minimum), and unbranded cases identical to Apple branded sell for 60-80% less at retail. Am I wrong about Apple’s abilities to manufacture durable products with different design goals? Maybe, but I doubt it. MacBook Pros are a great example, when transitioning to unibody design, the MacBook lost replaceable batteries and other components, in exchange for a more structurally rigid frame and a very marginal weight/thickness savings. What they did achieve is a higher margin design by focusing on production efficiency and an attempt to push higher service costs to the consumer. (Which partially failed with the defective keyboards) The engineers produced a product that met its design goals, with the exception of the garbage keyboard.