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> He completely transformed modern life and changed the human trajectory for everyone on the planet, multiple times. Steve Jobs? This is going to need a fair

by Jedd 5y ago

> He completely transformed modern life and changed the human trajectory for everyone on the planet, multiple times. Steve Jobs? This is going to need a fair amount of substantiation, because those are some wild claims.

mattl 5y ago
I assume the parent is referring to MobileMe, iPod socks and NeXTSTEP for PA RISC.
HWR_14 5y ago
> Steve Jobs? Steve Jobs may not have invented the personal computer, smartphone, or computer-generated animated movies, but he definitely popularized all of them
- theonlybutlet 5y ago
  In the US yes, the rest of the world not so much. They were already popular or had other influences initially.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    You're relying a lot on "or had other influences". None of those things were invented by him, or by the companies he worked with. They were mass-marketed by him.
    - theonlybutlet 5y ago
      Indeed but things like smartphones already had mass appeal in Europe and Asia, from the likes of Nokia in Europe and NTTDocomo in Japan.
hncurious 5y ago
Here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs
- Jedd 5y ago
  Thanks, but I know who he was and what he did. Personally I tend to side more with rms's position on the passing of Steve Jobs. I just wonder how credulous someone needs to be in order to assert that guy ".. completely transformed modern life and changed the human trajectory for everyone on the planet, multiple times." Perhaps if I'd ever owned or used any Apple products, I may have bought into these grand claims. Alas my ICT history has been Commodore, PC-compat, Palm, Nokia, GNU/Linux, begrudgingly Microsoft, and Google products, etc. EDIT: From the link you shared: "Jobs later reflected that had it not been for Wozniak's blue boxes, "there wouldn't have been an Apple"." "According to Wozniak, Jobs told him that Atari gave them only $700 (instead of the $5,000 paid out), and that Wozniak's share was thus $350." Wozniak was / is a legend. Steve Jobs was persistently awful.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    >"Jobs later reflected that had it not been for Wozniak's blue boxes, "there wouldn't have been an Apple"." >Steve Jobs was persistently awful. I don't think the first statement supports the second, he did give some credit there. I think often awful. although where awful is concerned, was he worse than a lot of powerful people. We have a lot of awful people to look at, where does Jobs fall on the scale, because when I look at Jobs he doesn't look anywhere as bad as Harvey Weinstein. Lots of people who frequent HN probably went around thinking Bill Gates was much worse than Steve Jobs, is he still or is Jobs the worse one now?
    - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
      evidently not thinking Jobs is the worst of the worst must be downvoted.
    - Jedd 5y ago
      You're right. The first statement speaks to his reliance on others - continuing through his career - to develop the actual ground-breaking technologies that he was subsequently credited with. That annexation of credit is an awful trait that most of us have experienced, and none of us respect. As to a leader-board of awfulness - we may be missing the point there. Sure, yes, lots of powerful people are awful, but one doesn't excuse the other. I suspect for a lot of free software advocates, idealists if you will, it's hard (and more importantly, pointless) to try to measure who was the most awful person in terms of compromising people's freedoms.

by Jedd 5y ago

mattl 5y ago

I assume the parent is referring to MobileMe, iPod socks and NeXTSTEP for PA RISC.

HWR_14 5y ago

> Steve Jobs? Steve Jobs may not have invented the personal computer, smartphone, or computer-generated animated movies, but he definitely popularized all of them

theonlybutlet 5y ago
In the US yes, the rest of the world not so much. They were already popular or had other influences initially.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  You're relying a lot on "or had other influences". None of those things were invented by him, or by the companies he worked with. They were mass-marketed by him.
  - theonlybutlet 5y ago
    Indeed but things like smartphones already had mass appeal in Europe and Asia, from the likes of Nokia in Europe and NTTDocomo in Japan.

hncurious 5y ago

Here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

Jedd 5y ago
Thanks, but I know who he was and what he did. Personally I tend to side more with rms's position on the passing of Steve Jobs. I just wonder how credulous someone needs to be in order to assert that guy ".. completely transformed modern life and changed the human trajectory for everyone on the planet, multiple times." Perhaps if I'd ever owned or used any Apple products, I may have bought into these grand claims. Alas my ICT history has been Commodore, PC-compat, Palm, Nokia, GNU/Linux, begrudgingly Microsoft, and Google products, etc. EDIT: From the link you shared: "Jobs later reflected that had it not been for Wozniak's blue boxes, "there wouldn't have been an Apple"." "According to Wozniak, Jobs told him that Atari gave them only $700 (instead of the $5,000 paid out), and that Wozniak's share was thus $350." Wozniak was / is a legend. Steve Jobs was persistently awful.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  >"Jobs later reflected that had it not been for Wozniak's blue boxes, "there wouldn't have been an Apple"." >Steve Jobs was persistently awful. I don't think the first statement supports the second, he did give some credit there. I think often awful. although where awful is concerned, was he worse than a lot of powerful people. We have a lot of awful people to look at, where does Jobs fall on the scale, because when I look at Jobs he doesn't look anywhere as bad as Harvey Weinstein. Lots of people who frequent HN probably went around thinking Bill Gates was much worse than Steve Jobs, is he still or is Jobs the worse one now?
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    evidently not thinking Jobs is the worst of the worst must be downvoted.
  - Jedd 5y ago
    You're right. The first statement speaks to his reliance on others - continuing through his career - to develop the actual ground-breaking technologies that he was subsequently credited with. That annexation of credit is an awful trait that most of us have experienced, and none of us respect. As to a leader-board of awfulness - we may be missing the point there. Sure, yes, lots of powerful people are awful, but one doesn't excuse the other. I suspect for a lot of free software advocates, idealists if you will, it's hard (and more importantly, pointless) to try to measure who was the most awful person in terms of compromising people's freedoms.