6 ms·

Color TVs superseded black and white because it was objectively an improvement for the customer. There wasn't any benefit to the manufacturer besides selling a

Color TVs superseded black and white because it was objectively an improvement for the customer. There wasn't any benefit to the manufacturer besides selling a new unit. the "Smart" TVs of today are riddled with spyware and telemetry that provides a second revenue stream to the manufacture since 95% of the population is too lazy or uninformed or doesn't have the time to turn it off. Yes, there benefits to the consumer in the form of convenience but it's not a paradigm shift like the switch from color to b & w. Also you could buy black and white televisions for _decades_ after the introduction of the color TV. In the course of about 5 years "dumb" TVs have almost completely disappeared from he market. Maybe I'm just cynical but I have a hard time believing that it was because everyone just _had_ to have a TV with a buggy UI (in many cases) and/or loaded with spyware.

alacritas0 5y ago
The average customer doesn't even know what spyware or telemetry is. I'd even argue that broadcast TV is dying making some form of video streaming service necessary which the smart TV accomplishes in a nice form factor.
- vincentpants 5y ago
  … while also making a product out of the user through data collection.
- CrazyCatDog 5y ago
  What do the smart ones in possession of a smart TV do? Because I constantly bleed time fine tuning pi-hole to limit telemetry and retain functionality…
  - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
    Don't give it network, and use it as a dumb terminal connected via hdmi to a secure pc
    - loonster 5y ago
      Eventually they will all likely have cellular modems.
      - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
        But if you are using an external video source and the tv as a dumb display via hdmi, what is that cellular modem going to transmit? Screenshots?
        vages 5y ago
        The TVs track the content you’re watching by sampling a subset of the pixels. So yes.
        donmcronald 5y ago
        Wow. I never knew about that. It’s called ACR (automatic content recognition).
    - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
      I remember reading some tvs will actively search (open?) networks to connect on their own.
  - dnissley 5y ago
    This might be unpopular in these parts, but... just don't do anything and actively choose not to care about things like telemetry which have no tangible effect on my experience.
  - throaway46546 5y ago
    I removed the WiFi card from mine.
    - touisteur 5y ago
      Do you remember which model it was and the format of the card? M.2? Card-express?
      - robotnikman 5y ago
        Probably M.2 since its the most common form factor for them
      - throaway46546 5y ago
        Sorry for the late response. I don't check this account every day. It isn't my main TV it is a TCL 49S405. It wasn't any form factor I recognize. I looked up the replacement part and found an image. https://i.imgur.com/FlbKQEu.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FlbKQEu.jpg It was super trivial to remove. There is actually a removable panel on the back of the TV that lets you access it. Once I saw the antenna connector I knew what it was.
        touisteur 5y ago
        Hey, no big deal. Thanks a lot for coming back and even posting a picture. Now I know what to look for. Didn't even think they'd have the wifi as an separate module, what with integration these days.
  - zimpenfish 5y ago
    Turn off the WIFI, unplug the ethernet, ban the MAC from DHCP, and then plug in an Apple TV 4K. (I trust Apple more than Samsung. Except when it comes to remote control design.)
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  Yes TV channels are being replaced by apps. I think smart TVs are great, the chips that they put in the €1000 models are good enough for 4k streaming now. No more cheap mediatek crap. The only remaining problem that needs to be solved is long term support.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    Roku TVs have handled 4k for years with much lower price points. They also have the best track record for supporting their product lineup.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  They know what ads are, they know what poorly designed laggy interfaces are, and they know about TVs that weirdly behave slowly if you load to many apps without rebooting your TV. It really makes more sense for smart functionality to be a different box so you can pick it independently
- hulitu 5y ago
  > The average customer doesn't even know what spyware or telemetry is. The average customer doesn't know what telemetry is. They usually know what spyware is, and, if they don't, they will find out very quickly. Of course there are exceptions like your favourite Smart TVs or Google (MS, Apple) products.
tshaddox 5y ago
> Maybe I'm just cynical but I have a hard time believing that it was because everyone just _had_ to have a TV with a buggy UI (in many cases) and/or loaded with spyware. As you indicated, dumb TVs did compete against smart TVs for many years. The options were more like: 1. Buy a smart TV that might contain spyware and bugs. 2. Buy a dumb TV, and also buy another device to play content which can just as easily contain spyware and bugs. Oh, and the dumb TV already costs the same as the smart TV, because the "smart" hardware is extremely cheap at scale even without any secondary revenue streams.
- ikr678 5y ago
  Being able to update the secondary device (with or without bugs) independent of the tv screen is a better upgrade path. How long will tv manufacturers be supporting and providing updates to smart tv software? If the smart components in the tv bug out or get bricked, you need a whole new tv.
oxfeed65261 5y ago
If I had to choose between a color TV that could only show live broadcasts or a B&W TV that could stream Netflix, etc., I would certainly choose B&W streaming. This obviously doesn’t require a smart TV—I personally use a Roku and rejected all of my Smart TV’s EULAs—but I consider streaming to be a much bigger objective improvement than color.
- fouc 5y ago
  That would be a fun product actually.. kickstarter idea? B&W TV w/ built-in roku-like/streaming capabilities. I wonder how expensive it would be to manufacture a B&W TV these days
  - Teever 5y ago
    It would the exact same amount as a colour TV because the B&W would all be done in software.
  - idonotknowwhy 5y ago
    If you mean a bw crt, the consensus on the crt gaming sub is that it's too expensive and there are a lot of undocumented secrets :( I've found some Chinese factory which claims they can do it, but they seem to be using new-old-stock tubes. I believe EU regulations regarding lead in consumer products prevent this too.
- idonotknowwhy 5y ago
  I watch Netflix on a CRT TV in 2021 lol. Hook up a ps3 via component and it's a great way to watch older 4:3 content like anime
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Are there any conpanies which sell CRTs TV?
    - idonotknowwhy 5y ago
GekkePrutser 5y ago
In addition to the spyware and telemetry, Samsung's smart TVs also show ads in their interface. Yes that $1000s TV you just bought. Sigh...
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  Yes. I bought two for my office wall recently and really regret it solely for this reason. I never really see the ads because I use them as dumb displays, but it pisses me off every time I do spot them. It didn’t seem enough at the time to warrant sending the TVs back but perhaps I should have. They’re segregated from the rest of my network at least. I may try to MITM them and strip out the ads.
darawk 5y ago
99% of the market does not even know about telemetry and spyware. And then about 90% of the 1% who does does not actually care. Smart TVs are popular because they offer a far better user experience for the average person. It really is that simple.
- fy20 5y ago
  This is why I got a smart TV. We watch Netflix, YouTube and Plex. We don't even have our TV connected to an antenna (and it reminds me that every time I turn it on). Compared to the alternative of getting a non-smart TV and plugging in some kind of dongle I think this was the better choice because: - When I got the TV 4K was only just becoming mainstream and most dongles didn't support it. My TV natively supports 4K, HDR and Atmos on Netflix and Plex. (Does YouTube support HDR and Atmos?) - My TV is 5 years old. The manufacturer (LG) hasn't introduced any new features that shove more ads down your throat [0], and all of the original features still work [1]. - Everything is controlled by 1 remote, so no need to explain to my wife you need to turn this on then this on (yes with HDMI CEC this should be possible, but the key word is "should"). - Using a dongle would have exactly the same privacy concerns - unless you run Netflix on a Linux laptop, but then you are stuck with 720p. [0] https://www.consumerreports.org/streaming-media-devices/what-the-new-ads-on-the-nvidia-shield-tv-mean-for-consumers-a8866367668/ https://www.consumerreports.org/streaming-media-devices/what... [1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/roku-youtube-tv-app-removed-from-channel-store-as-deal-with-google-ends/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/roku-youtube...
  - deadbunny 5y ago
    > My TV is 5 years old. The manufacturer (LG) hasn't introduced any new features that shove more ads down your throat, and all of the original features still work. And on the flip side your TV probably isn't receiving security updates anymore either. Hope you have it segregated from the rest of your devices.
anigbrowl 5y ago
Yes, there benefits to the consumer in the form of convenience but it's not a paradigm shift like the switch from color to b & w Not having to procure or mess around with external devices and cables is a huge plus for most people. People who buy new TVs want great image quality, and are mostly concerned with where it will fit and whether they want 8k or are happy with 4k.

alacritas0 5y ago

The average customer doesn't even know what spyware or telemetry is. I'd even argue that broadcast TV is dying making some form of video streaming service necessary which the smart TV accomplishes in a nice form factor.

vincentpants 5y ago
… while also making a product out of the user through data collection.
CrazyCatDog 5y ago
What do the smart ones in possession of a smart TV do? Because I constantly bleed time fine tuning pi-hole to limit telemetry and retain functionality…
- hackerfromthefu 5y ago
  Don't give it network, and use it as a dumb terminal connected via hdmi to a secure pc
  - loonster 5y ago
    Eventually they will all likely have cellular modems.
    - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      But if you are using an external video source and the tv as a dumb display via hdmi, what is that cellular modem going to transmit? Screenshots?
      - vages 5y ago
        The TVs track the content you’re watching by sampling a subset of the pixels. So yes.
        donmcronald 5y ago
        Wow. I never knew about that. It’s called ACR (automatic content recognition).
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    I remember reading some tvs will actively search (open?) networks to connect on their own.
- dnissley 5y ago
  This might be unpopular in these parts, but... just don't do anything and actively choose not to care about things like telemetry which have no tangible effect on my experience.
- throaway46546 5y ago
  I removed the WiFi card from mine.
  - touisteur 5y ago
    Do you remember which model it was and the format of the card? M.2? Card-express?
    - robotnikman 5y ago
      Probably M.2 since its the most common form factor for them
    - throaway46546 5y ago
      Sorry for the late response. I don't check this account every day. It isn't my main TV it is a TCL 49S405. It wasn't any form factor I recognize. I looked up the replacement part and found an image. https://i.imgur.com/FlbKQEu.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FlbKQEu.jpg It was super trivial to remove. There is actually a removable panel on the back of the TV that lets you access it. Once I saw the antenna connector I knew what it was.
      - touisteur 5y ago
        Hey, no big deal. Thanks a lot for coming back and even posting a picture. Now I know what to look for. Didn't even think they'd have the wifi as an separate module, what with integration these days.
- zimpenfish 5y ago
  Turn off the WIFI, unplug the ethernet, ban the MAC from DHCP, and then plug in an Apple TV 4K. (I trust Apple more than Samsung. Except when it comes to remote control design.)
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Yes TV channels are being replaced by apps. I think smart TVs are great, the chips that they put in the €1000 models are good enough for 4k streaming now. No more cheap mediatek crap. The only remaining problem that needs to be solved is long term support.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  Roku TVs have handled 4k for years with much lower price points. They also have the best track record for supporting their product lineup.
michaelmrose 5y ago
They know what ads are, they know what poorly designed laggy interfaces are, and they know about TVs that weirdly behave slowly if you load to many apps without rebooting your TV. It really makes more sense for smart functionality to be a different box so you can pick it independently
hulitu 5y ago
> The average customer doesn't even know what spyware or telemetry is. The average customer doesn't know what telemetry is. They usually know what spyware is, and, if they don't, they will find out very quickly. Of course there are exceptions like your favourite Smart TVs or Google (MS, Apple) products.

tshaddox 5y ago

> Maybe I'm just cynical but I have a hard time believing that it was because everyone just _had_ to have a TV with a buggy UI (in many cases) and/or loaded with spyware. As you indicated, dumb TVs did compete against smart TVs for many years. The options were more like: 1. Buy a smart TV that might contain spyware and bugs. 2. Buy a dumb TV, and also buy another device to play content which can just as easily contain spyware and bugs. Oh, and the dumb TV already costs the same as the smart TV, because the "smart" hardware is extremely cheap at scale even without any secondary revenue streams.

ikr678 5y ago
Being able to update the secondary device (with or without bugs) independent of the tv screen is a better upgrade path. How long will tv manufacturers be supporting and providing updates to smart tv software? If the smart components in the tv bug out or get bricked, you need a whole new tv.

oxfeed65261 5y ago

If I had to choose between a color TV that could only show live broadcasts or a B&W TV that could stream Netflix, etc., I would certainly choose B&W streaming. This obviously doesn’t require a smart TV—I personally use a Roku and rejected all of my Smart TV’s EULAs—but I consider streaming to be a much bigger objective improvement than color.

fouc 5y ago
That would be a fun product actually.. kickstarter idea? B&W TV w/ built-in roku-like/streaming capabilities. I wonder how expensive it would be to manufacture a B&W TV these days
- Teever 5y ago
  It would the exact same amount as a colour TV because the B&W would all be done in software.
- idonotknowwhy 5y ago
  If you mean a bw crt, the consensus on the crt gaming sub is that it's too expensive and there are a lot of undocumented secrets :( I've found some Chinese factory which claims they can do it, but they seem to be using new-old-stock tubes. I believe EU regulations regarding lead in consumer products prevent this too.
idonotknowwhy 5y ago
I watch Netflix on a CRT TV in 2021 lol. Hook up a ps3 via component and it's a great way to watch older 4:3 content like anime
- hulitu 5y ago
  Are there any conpanies which sell CRTs TV?
  - idonotknowwhy 5y ago

GekkePrutser 5y ago

In addition to the spyware and telemetry, Samsung's smart TVs also show ads in their interface. Yes that $1000s TV you just bought. Sigh...

tailspin2019 5y ago
Yes. I bought two for my office wall recently and really regret it solely for this reason. I never really see the ads because I use them as dumb displays, but it pisses me off every time I do spot them. It didn’t seem enough at the time to warrant sending the TVs back but perhaps I should have. They’re segregated from the rest of my network at least. I may try to MITM them and strip out the ads.

darawk 5y ago

99% of the market does not even know about telemetry and spyware. And then about 90% of the 1% who does does not actually care. Smart TVs are popular because they offer a far better user experience for the average person. It really is that simple.

fy20 5y ago
This is why I got a smart TV. We watch Netflix, YouTube and Plex. We don't even have our TV connected to an antenna (and it reminds me that every time I turn it on). Compared to the alternative of getting a non-smart TV and plugging in some kind of dongle I think this was the better choice because: - When I got the TV 4K was only just becoming mainstream and most dongles didn't support it. My TV natively supports 4K, HDR and Atmos on Netflix and Plex. (Does YouTube support HDR and Atmos?) - My TV is 5 years old. The manufacturer (LG) hasn't introduced any new features that shove more ads down your throat [0], and all of the original features still work [1]. - Everything is controlled by 1 remote, so no need to explain to my wife you need to turn this on then this on (yes with HDMI CEC this should be possible, but the key word is "should"). - Using a dongle would have exactly the same privacy concerns - unless you run Netflix on a Linux laptop, but then you are stuck with 720p. [0] https://www.consumerreports.org/streaming-media-devices/what-the-new-ads-on-the-nvidia-shield-tv-mean-for-consumers-a8866367668/ https://www.consumerreports.org/streaming-media-devices/what... [1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/roku-youtube-tv-app-removed-from-channel-store-as-deal-with-google-ends/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/roku-youtube...
- deadbunny 5y ago
  > My TV is 5 years old. The manufacturer (LG) hasn't introduced any new features that shove more ads down your throat, and all of the original features still work. And on the flip side your TV probably isn't receiving security updates anymore either. Hope you have it segregated from the rest of your devices.

anigbrowl 5y ago

Yes, there benefits to the consumer in the form of convenience but it's not a paradigm shift like the switch from color to b & w Not having to procure or mess around with external devices and cables is a huge plus for most people. People who buy new TVs want great image quality, and are mostly concerned with where it will fit and whether they want 8k or are happy with 4k.