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> then every one of them should have had an emergency visa that allowed them to fly out on American planes to America and be processed there This is fantasy. E

by _jal 5y ago

> then every one of them should have had an emergency visa that allowed them to fly out on American planes to America and be processed there This is fantasy. Even if you could get divided government on board, how are you going to convince the Taliban to let them out? If you think it should have been done in "secret" beforehand, please explain how you get literally thousands of people, many in visible positions, out without being noticed. This is just one example of a demand for something that could not happen. They've evac'ed over 100K people so far. It is the largest such operation in history, and it is actually going relatively well. It is amusing, but not surprising, to see all the 'savvy' media consumers here get rolled.

_-david-_ 5y ago
>how are you going to convince the Taliban to let them out Easy. Don't let the country fall into the hands of the Taliban before getting people out. That would prevent negotiations with some of the worst people in the world.
lazyasciiart 5y ago
You don't need the 'divided government' on board. Immigration is entirely within the control of the executive. That's why they are now able to let people in directly without a visa once it got urgent enough to give a shit - because it is at the discretion of the department. As for this specific situation: The Taliban didn't control the country until very recently. Thousands of people have been at the airport, waiting for planes - you may have seen pictures of them crowding the airstrip. The Taliban has not been preventing them from flying out, the lack of planes and lack of letting them on the planes has been preventing them. People have been applying for visas for months, in public, and not getting them. Some of these people have been waiting for years. There is no universe in which any of what you just said is a valid reason for letting everything turn into a dumpster fire in the first place, and there is no way to excuse the existence of this dumpster fire by praising how well they're handling the massive dumpster fire they created.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Immigration is entirely within the control of the executive. No, its not; immigration control is a power Constitutionally assigned to Congress and which Congress has extensively prescribed rules on. Courts have repeatedly in recent years invalidated executive immigration actions as violation of legislative rules, both substantive and procedural.
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    For any single individual, the choice on whether to let them in or not is up to the executive branch. It is far more common for them to use their discretionary options to deny people entry, but this is a magical case where they are actually doing the opposite - "DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is using his humanitarian parole authority to allow at-risk Afghans without visas to enter the U.S" https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1430198432434737153?s=20 https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1430198432434737153...
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    So perhaps I should have said 'the implementation of immigration is entirely within the control of the executive'. There are extensive rules with discretionary holes large enough to admit or deny the entire population of Afghanistan.
nanis 5y ago
> convince the Taliban This is the depths to which American credibility has sunk. We have to convince them because we have left ourselves no options[1]. Except that they have no interest in being "convinced", but every interest in demonstrating to friend and foe alike that the U.S. has capitulated[2]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28224405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28224405 [2]: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9922849/Biden-tells-G7-leaders-hell-LEAVE-Afghanistan-August-31.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9922849/Biden-tells...
lazyasciiart 5y ago
And it is neither amusing or surprising to see another 'too smart for u' commentator choose cynical apathy and misinformation over the challenge of dealing with reality: this didn't have to happen.

by _jal 5y ago

_-david-_ 5y ago

>how are you going to convince the Taliban to let them out Easy. Don't let the country fall into the hands of the Taliban before getting people out. That would prevent negotiations with some of the worst people in the world.

lazyasciiart 5y ago

You don't need the 'divided government' on board. Immigration is entirely within the control of the executive. That's why they are now able to let people in directly without a visa once it got urgent enough to give a shit - because it is at the discretion of the department. As for this specific situation: The Taliban didn't control the country until very recently. Thousands of people have been at the airport, waiting for planes - you may have seen pictures of them crowding the airstrip. The Taliban has not been preventing them from flying out, the lack of planes and lack of letting them on the planes has been preventing them. People have been applying for visas for months, in public, and not getting them. Some of these people have been waiting for years. There is no universe in which any of what you just said is a valid reason for letting everything turn into a dumpster fire in the first place, and there is no way to excuse the existence of this dumpster fire by praising how well they're handling the massive dumpster fire they created.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Immigration is entirely within the control of the executive. No, its not; immigration control is a power Constitutionally assigned to Congress and which Congress has extensively prescribed rules on. Courts have repeatedly in recent years invalidated executive immigration actions as violation of legislative rules, both substantive and procedural.
- lazyasciiart 5y ago
  For any single individual, the choice on whether to let them in or not is up to the executive branch. It is far more common for them to use their discretionary options to deny people entry, but this is a magical case where they are actually doing the opposite - "DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is using his humanitarian parole authority to allow at-risk Afghans without visas to enter the U.S" https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1430198432434737153?s=20 https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1430198432434737153...
- lazyasciiart 5y ago
  So perhaps I should have said 'the implementation of immigration is entirely within the control of the executive'. There are extensive rules with discretionary holes large enough to admit or deny the entire population of Afghanistan.

nanis 5y ago

> convince the Taliban This is the depths to which American credibility has sunk. We have to convince them because we have left ourselves no options[1]. Except that they have no interest in being "convinced", but every interest in demonstrating to friend and foe alike that the U.S. has capitulated[2]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28224405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28224405 [2]: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9922849/Biden-tells-G7-leaders-hell-LEAVE-Afghanistan-August-31.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9922849/Biden-tells...

lazyasciiart 5y ago

And it is neither amusing or surprising to see another 'too smart for u' commentator choose cynical apathy and misinformation over the challenge of dealing with reality: this didn't have to happen.