4 ms·

are you even aware of your own history? Genocide, slavery, segregation, oppression of religious and sexual minorities etc ? You did wars to spread christianity.

are you even aware of your own history? Genocide, slavery, segregation, oppression of religious and sexual minorities etc ? You did wars to spread christianity. Even now gays don't have equal rights. Whatever little rights they earned was just recently. Bill of rights was in the 1700s. Genocide, slavery and all that rest happened while your bill of rights was in full force. How do people write these shit with a straight face knowing western history? especially United State's history. As for the topic in hand, the Bahraini govt is accused of doing to select people what US govt does to everyone, and you are getting self righteous? Lmao this is hilarious.

stickfigure 5y ago
This is a twisted form of whatabboutism. Every lineage of humans has a sordid history. None of those people are alive now; what matters is what the people who are alive today do. The crusades a thousand years ago do not justify jihad today. "The West" has come a long way. It's not hypocritical to want the rest of the world to catch up.
- quetzthecoatl 5y ago
  >This is a twisted form of whatabboutism. As if that's a valid criticism. What about your whataboutism? hehe. You wrote about western countries and especially US having protections that make your democracy enlightened - especially citing bill of rights that protects the rights of everyone. To which I pointed out that you had genocide of natives, slavery of Africans, oppression of women, sexual minorities etc when bill of rights was in full force. Point being that not only are you wrong about west being equal, but also about having these protection would actually mean anything. >The crusades a thousand years ago do not justify jihad today. No where did i say it does. You are literally making stuff up. How does you lot doing genocide and slavery in US justify Taliban blowing up whatever they find unislamic in their narrow definition of pure islam? None of the examples I used went far back to 1000 years, why even bring it up? As for ignoring this happened in the past - Axe doesn't remember, the tree does. You can conveniently forget horrific events in the past when you benefited from it or you did it (whatever that "you" identity is). You might say the genocide of natives was in the past, so shouldn't matter, but the native americans would definitely beg to differ. btw where do you draw the line? 500 years? 100 years? 10 years? yesterday? Of the genocide, slavery, segregation, wars to spread christianity and/or stop communism - what according to you is beyond the statute of limitations on moral responsibility? >"The West" has come a long way. It's not hypocritical to want the rest of the world to catch up. It really hasn't. The latest nightmare that is unfolding in Afghanistan, is created by west. The rest of the world can't catch up when you keep destabilizing it.
  - whycombinatore 5y ago
    The events in Afghanistan started from Sour revolution, which went sour. That's when USSR was invited to the scene by the Afghan president. So is it east or west that started trouble? In general, its empires that attempt to take of advantage of weak states - be it USSR, US, China. If you go back arbitrarily in time, then, yeah, everyone were barbarians.
    - quetzthecoatl 5y ago
      Yeah, USSR's help was sought out by Afghanistan. How does it concern US? As a sovereign republic, it's Afghanistan's right to self govern seeking help from whoever she pleases. It's none of US' business. As for history and barbarians. In the last 300 years, US have eclipsed whatever injustices others have done in thousands of years. If we include the whole of western hemisphere, it's not even comparable. There is no other civilization that matches the horrific evils that the "enlightened western civilization" did even remotely. You lot wiped off entire natives from multiple continents. Did mass murder in other continents. Followed it up with slavery. I could go on, but even chengiz khan looks like an emo kid if you look at the evil and barbarity of western history.
      - ecnerwala 5y ago
        And yet you stand in a 1 KM queue to get a visa to the "west". :P
        quetzthecoatl 5y ago
        touchy. i really touched a nerve huh? why the smiley at the end though. >And yet you stand in a 1 KM queue to get a visa to the "west". :P How else are we going to destroy you from within? :P
  - benque 5y ago
    What exactly do you want to do with past events? At least in the west (I am a South Asian) they document it and possibly learn from it / incorporate it in studies (Germany). Would you rather have the Chinese method of whitewashing or completely censoring past (bad) events? There is pretty much no empire in history which hasn't tried to expand, coerce, or otherwise influence weak states, so going back hundreds of years is pure uselessness. Take China for example - Do you think the current generation of Chinese bother about failures of CCP during the cultural revolution or would they be happy about what the CCP has achieved in the last 30 years? Also, learn about what happened in Afghanistan from 1975 - You'll find that it has evolved into a proxy war between many parties, but was started by an Afghan president seeking help from Soviets.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- shkkmo 5y ago
  How is it "whataboutism"? This isn't saying "america is bad because history" it is saying that the history of america shoes that democracy can function even with pretty limited application of liberal values.
- shadilay 5y ago
  It seems the crusades are always referenced but rarely in their historical context.
masterof0 5y ago
When you point out hypocrisy in HN, you will get downvoted and comments on how you are using "whataboutism". Most of the traffic to this website comes from the US, so you probably understand the clear bias. You will also see how people love to bring(rightfully so) Hong Kong crackdowns on protesters but willingly ignore what is going on in other countries (and have been going for longer) like Venezuela, Cuba, etc... Is just how it is.
- whycombinatore 5y ago
  More than half of the countries in existence are poor places to live. Generally if conditions deteriorate in a country it attracts attention - so in Hong Kong people clearly lost rights which they had because of CCP policies. Its not that people willingly ignore Cuba - its more to do with reaction to change which is perceived as negative.
- verall 5y ago
  Hong Kong is an extremely international and technically advanced city that freely accepts American passports for visits. Many on HN bring up the HK crackdowns because they have personal experiences with the city. Its unlikely that on a majority-American forum you will find many people with personal experiences in countries that the USA has put under embargo.
  - masterof0 5y ago
    So, countries under embargo are doomed to apathy and disregard from the American public? Their people suffering can be safely ignored , just because their country is not "international"(whatever this means) or "technically advanced" enough? Your comment shows the sentiment I was describing. Is never about being fair, or about freedom, etc.. Is just about what can I say to make people like my comment. But anyways, I get your point, is just sad.
    - whycombinatore 5y ago
      Strongly disagree. I am not an American, but I am aware about Hong Kong, but know nothing about, say, Burkina Faso. The reason is pretty simple - HK is going downhill (from my perspective) while there isn't much of a change in Burkina Faso, although I would rather be in HK than Burkina Faso. In other words we react to what we see as "negative change" from our own perspective.

stickfigure 5y ago

This is a twisted form of whatabboutism. Every lineage of humans has a sordid history. None of those people are alive now; what matters is what the people who are alive today do. The crusades a thousand years ago do not justify jihad today. "The West" has come a long way. It's not hypocritical to want the rest of the world to catch up.

quetzthecoatl 5y ago
>This is a twisted form of whatabboutism. As if that's a valid criticism. What about your whataboutism? hehe. You wrote about western countries and especially US having protections that make your democracy enlightened - especially citing bill of rights that protects the rights of everyone. To which I pointed out that you had genocide of natives, slavery of Africans, oppression of women, sexual minorities etc when bill of rights was in full force. Point being that not only are you wrong about west being equal, but also about having these protection would actually mean anything. >The crusades a thousand years ago do not justify jihad today. No where did i say it does. You are literally making stuff up. How does you lot doing genocide and slavery in US justify Taliban blowing up whatever they find unislamic in their narrow definition of pure islam? None of the examples I used went far back to 1000 years, why even bring it up? As for ignoring this happened in the past - Axe doesn't remember, the tree does. You can conveniently forget horrific events in the past when you benefited from it or you did it (whatever that "you" identity is). You might say the genocide of natives was in the past, so shouldn't matter, but the native americans would definitely beg to differ. btw where do you draw the line? 500 years? 100 years? 10 years? yesterday? Of the genocide, slavery, segregation, wars to spread christianity and/or stop communism - what according to you is beyond the statute of limitations on moral responsibility? >"The West" has come a long way. It's not hypocritical to want the rest of the world to catch up. It really hasn't. The latest nightmare that is unfolding in Afghanistan, is created by west. The rest of the world can't catch up when you keep destabilizing it.
- whycombinatore 5y ago
  The events in Afghanistan started from Sour revolution, which went sour. That's when USSR was invited to the scene by the Afghan president. So is it east or west that started trouble? In general, its empires that attempt to take of advantage of weak states - be it USSR, US, China. If you go back arbitrarily in time, then, yeah, everyone were barbarians.
  - quetzthecoatl 5y ago
    Yeah, USSR's help was sought out by Afghanistan. How does it concern US? As a sovereign republic, it's Afghanistan's right to self govern seeking help from whoever she pleases. It's none of US' business. As for history and barbarians. In the last 300 years, US have eclipsed whatever injustices others have done in thousands of years. If we include the whole of western hemisphere, it's not even comparable. There is no other civilization that matches the horrific evils that the "enlightened western civilization" did even remotely. You lot wiped off entire natives from multiple continents. Did mass murder in other continents. Followed it up with slavery. I could go on, but even chengiz khan looks like an emo kid if you look at the evil and barbarity of western history.
    - ecnerwala 5y ago
      And yet you stand in a 1 KM queue to get a visa to the "west". :P
      - quetzthecoatl 5y ago
        touchy. i really touched a nerve huh? why the smiley at the end though. >And yet you stand in a 1 KM queue to get a visa to the "west". :P How else are we going to destroy you from within? :P
- benque 5y ago
  What exactly do you want to do with past events? At least in the west (I am a South Asian) they document it and possibly learn from it / incorporate it in studies (Germany). Would you rather have the Chinese method of whitewashing or completely censoring past (bad) events? There is pretty much no empire in history which hasn't tried to expand, coerce, or otherwise influence weak states, so going back hundreds of years is pure uselessness. Take China for example - Do you think the current generation of Chinese bother about failures of CCP during the cultural revolution or would they be happy about what the CCP has achieved in the last 30 years? Also, learn about what happened in Afghanistan from 1975 - You'll find that it has evolved into a proxy war between many parties, but was started by an Afghan president seeking help from Soviets.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
shkkmo 5y ago
How is it "whataboutism"? This isn't saying "america is bad because history" it is saying that the history of america shoes that democracy can function even with pretty limited application of liberal values.
shadilay 5y ago
It seems the crusades are always referenced but rarely in their historical context.

masterof0 5y ago

When you point out hypocrisy in HN, you will get downvoted and comments on how you are using "whataboutism". Most of the traffic to this website comes from the US, so you probably understand the clear bias. You will also see how people love to bring(rightfully so) Hong Kong crackdowns on protesters but willingly ignore what is going on in other countries (and have been going for longer) like Venezuela, Cuba, etc... Is just how it is.

whycombinatore 5y ago
More than half of the countries in existence are poor places to live. Generally if conditions deteriorate in a country it attracts attention - so in Hong Kong people clearly lost rights which they had because of CCP policies. Its not that people willingly ignore Cuba - its more to do with reaction to change which is perceived as negative.
verall 5y ago
Hong Kong is an extremely international and technically advanced city that freely accepts American passports for visits. Many on HN bring up the HK crackdowns because they have personal experiences with the city. Its unlikely that on a majority-American forum you will find many people with personal experiences in countries that the USA has put under embargo.
- masterof0 5y ago
  So, countries under embargo are doomed to apathy and disregard from the American public? Their people suffering can be safely ignored , just because their country is not "international"(whatever this means) or "technically advanced" enough? Your comment shows the sentiment I was describing. Is never about being fair, or about freedom, etc.. Is just about what can I say to make people like my comment. But anyways, I get your point, is just sad.
  - whycombinatore 5y ago
    Strongly disagree. I am not an American, but I am aware about Hong Kong, but know nothing about, say, Burkina Faso. The reason is pretty simple - HK is going downhill (from my perspective) while there isn't much of a change in Burkina Faso, although I would rather be in HK than Burkina Faso. In other words we react to what we see as "negative change" from our own perspective.