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Reuters photographer was killed after being left behind in retreat

180 points by akbarnama 5y ago

nanis 5y ago
> As the Taliban's campaign to reconquer Afghanistan was gathering pace in June, hundreds of people were dying in the fighting, and tens of thousands were fleeing. <sarc>Hmmm ... Didn't they hear that the Afghan National Army just abandoned their positions with no fighting at all? How's this supposed to make the administration look less bad?</sarc> Updated to add `<sarc>` tags for clarity.
- enkid 5y ago
  What are you talking about? The APs job isn't to make the administration look good. And this group was surrounded because many of the ANA forces did just abandon their positions. Also, the complete collapse that occurred was this month, August. There was still a lot of fighting occuring in June and July.
  - nanis 5y ago
    <remove the note about being sarcastic> Of course, there was intense fighting during June and July. At that point, the Afghan military was deprived of U.S. support. The U.S. abandoned key positions and reduced support, signaling whoever remained behind would have to come to terms with dealing with the Taliban on their own. Given the fact that resisting the Taliban puts entire extended families at risk for reprisals even if one wins a battle or two, the cost-benefit calculus was clear for a lot of people. And, once that process of unwinding begins, it accelerates. The public in the U.S. were not kept informed of what had been happening in Afghanistan until the disaster unfolded in full. Then, the administration said no one had could have foreseen this possibility and tried to create the impression that Afghans had given up. A show of "we've got your back" could've gone a long way, but, instead, the administration demonstrated with actions "we are with the Taliban, you're on your own."
    - pjc50 5y ago
      The US moving out was part of the agreement, made by you-know-who: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-F... > The United States is committed to withdraw from Afghanistan all military forces of the United States, its allies, and Coalition partners, including all non-diplomatic civilian personnel, private security contractors, trainers, advisors, and supporting services personnel within fourteen (14) months following announcement of this agreement Perhaps they could have changed their minds and stayed, but then what? Really the evacuation plan should have been clearer from an earlier date.
      - janeroe 5y ago
        So there was some kind of agreement and it wasn't supposed to be an unconditional capitulation?
      - dudul 5y ago
        Did the agreement mentioned that it had to be done in such a disorganized manner? Without informing said allies and coalition members? Without taking the time to evacuate 10s of thousands of foreigners? There is a difference between agreeing on an outcome and the implentation to get there.
        nanis 5y ago
        "US left Afghan airfield at night, didn’t tell new commander"[1] comes to mind. > Before the Afghan army could take control of the airfield about an hour’s drive from the Afghan capital Kabul, it was invaded by a small army of looters, who ransacked barrack after barrack and rummaged through giant storage tents before being evicted, according to Afghan military officials. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/bagram-afghanistan-airfield-us-troops-f3614828364f567593251aaaa167e623 https://apnews.com/article/bagram-afghanistan-airfield-us-tr...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - 5y ago
  - nanis 5y ago
    > The APs job Minor correction: The comment references a Reuters article which seems to contradict the oft-repeated assertion: > We gave them every chance to determine their own future. What we could not provide them was the will to fight for that future.[1] [1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/16/remarks-by-president-biden-on-afghanistan/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
jumelles 5y ago
Fascinating and very sad. Photojournalists like Danish Siddiqui are incredibly brave.
t0mmyb0y 5y ago
These things happen when the gop surrenders to taliban, with official paperwork to boot
hhsbz 5y ago
What was this Indian citizen doing in a country that is not his and is currently deep in war?
aazaa 5y ago
> The security group [in Reuters] approved the embed plan. “We were talking about the Afghan Special Forces, the elite,” said Rogers [Reuters global pictures editor]. “They had all the hospitals at their disposal, all the equipment needed to evacuate, including air support.” Siddiqui would join their headquarters near Kandahar. On display here are the deep miscalculation and disbelief over it. It's a pattern that has unfortunately played out innumerable times in the last 20 years as organizations outside of Afghanistan tried to figure the place out and failed miserably.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Even if they knowingly left him behind, sometimes you have to make hard choices in war. Sacrificing a unit so that no man is left behind is a movie trope, not reality.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
foolinaround 5y ago
The loss of a photo journalist with integrity like Danish Siddiqui is an irreplaceable loss, merely because there really aren't (m)any left. While this situation in Afghanistan was fraught with danger from the start, his reporting in the Delhi riots and UP (a state in India)'s handling of Covid really changed the dynamics of the public intercourse, and also the urgency of the government. He undertook it at personal cost as a muslim. In this way, these photographs were as impactful as the napalm girl photo in My Lai, Vietnam. We like to think of our country as having a free press, but we have one that is completely suborned to a political ideology, etc? Where are the similar photos of the body of the elderly stacked in NJ/NY? Is there a similar level of threat to lives of these reporters? The lack of a properly functioning 4th estate does not bode well for our country.
- codetrotter 5y ago
  > public intercourse I think you typo’d your way into a different word than you meant here. What you meant to say was public discourse.
  - psim1 5y ago
    intercourse | ˈin(t)ərˌkôrs | noun communication or dealings between individuals or groups: everyday social intercourse.
    - codetrotter 5y ago
      And yet if you Google public intercourse the whole first page is all about sex. (Safe search off, probably.) I maintain that public discourse is the pair of words to use.
      - leephillips 5y ago
        I maintain that you should consult a dictionary before telling someone what they should have said. Also, we all make mistakes; the thing is to own up rather than doubling down.
34679 5y ago
The details in the article don't support the headline. >On Tuesday, July 13, Siddiqui joined a successful mission to rescue a policeman who was surrounded by insurgents >Three days later, on July 16, Siddiqui and two Afghan commandos were killed >In the weeks that followed, the Taliban conquered city after city.
- ancientworldnow 5y ago
  That's because the article is intended to lay blame at the US exit of Afghanistan and imply that the taliban is executing fighters. In reality, media embedded with soldiers in active combat occasionally die which is a tragedy but less useful for propaganda (hence the title).
- isleyaardvark 5y ago
  I don’t know how you can think that. The July 16 mission was a separate mission. The article goes into detail about that mission and about how he was killed after being left behind when the soldiers retreated during the July 16 mission.
ErikVandeWater 5y ago
> Major-General Haibatullah Alizai, who was the commander of Afghanistan’s Special Operations Corps when it hosted Siddiqui in Kandahar, told Reuters it was evident now that, in fierce fighting, his soldiers withdrew from Spin Boldak and left behind Siddiqui and two commandos accompanying him, mistakenly thinking they had joined the retreating convoy. His account was corroborated by four soldiers who say they witnessed the attack. The article uses the word abandoned, but it's not clear based on this account that he and the two soldiers with him were. Abandonment would imply knowingly leaving them behind. This could definitely be a fog of war situation in which they were expected to have moved and did not. No one thinks straight getting shot at unless they are an experienced professional.
maerF0x0 5y ago
> “If we don’t go, who will?” I just want to take a moment to honor the courage and sentiments of the man behind these words. RIP, may your family be ever proud. They echo MLK's Ive been to the mountain top [1] > That's the question before you tonight. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to my job. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers what will happen to all of the hours that I usually spend in my office every day and every week as a pastor?" The question is not, "If I stop to help this man in need, what will happen to me?" The question is, "If I do not stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to them?" That's the question. or (attributed) Dietrich Bonhoeffer [2] > First they came for the Communists,... there was no one left May we soberly continue to consider these thoughts as we approach world affairs. [1]: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemountaintop.htm https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemou... [2]: http://www.knowyourquotes.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Communists-But-I-Was-Not-A-Communist-So-I-Did-Not-Speak-Out-Then-They-Came-For-The-Socialists-And-The-Trade-Unionists-But-I-Was-Neither-So-I-Did-Not-Speak-Out-Then-They-Ca-Dietrich-Bonhoeffer.html http://www.knowyourquotes.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Commun...

180 points by akbarnama 5y ago

> As the Taliban's campaign to reconquer Afghanistan was gathering pace in June, hundreds of people were dying in the fighting, and tens of thousands were fleeing. <sarc>Hmmm ... Didn't they hear that the Afghan National Army just abandoned their positions with no fighting at all? How's this supposed to make the administration look less bad?</sarc> Updated to add `<sarc>` tags for clarity.

enkid 5y ago
What are you talking about? The APs job isn't to make the administration look good. And this group was surrounded because many of the ANA forces did just abandon their positions. Also, the complete collapse that occurred was this month, August. There was still a lot of fighting occuring in June and July.
- nanis 5y ago
  <remove the note about being sarcastic> Of course, there was intense fighting during June and July. At that point, the Afghan military was deprived of U.S. support. The U.S. abandoned key positions and reduced support, signaling whoever remained behind would have to come to terms with dealing with the Taliban on their own. Given the fact that resisting the Taliban puts entire extended families at risk for reprisals even if one wins a battle or two, the cost-benefit calculus was clear for a lot of people. And, once that process of unwinding begins, it accelerates. The public in the U.S. were not kept informed of what had been happening in Afghanistan until the disaster unfolded in full. Then, the administration said no one had could have foreseen this possibility and tried to create the impression that Afghans had given up. A show of "we've got your back" could've gone a long way, but, instead, the administration demonstrated with actions "we are with the Taliban, you're on your own."
  - pjc50 5y ago
    The US moving out was part of the agreement, made by you-know-who: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-F... > The United States is committed to withdraw from Afghanistan all military forces of the United States, its allies, and Coalition partners, including all non-diplomatic civilian personnel, private security contractors, trainers, advisors, and supporting services personnel within fourteen (14) months following announcement of this agreement Perhaps they could have changed their minds and stayed, but then what? Really the evacuation plan should have been clearer from an earlier date.
    - janeroe 5y ago
      So there was some kind of agreement and it wasn't supposed to be an unconditional capitulation?
    - dudul 5y ago
      Did the agreement mentioned that it had to be done in such a disorganized manner? Without informing said allies and coalition members? Without taking the time to evacuate 10s of thousands of foreigners? There is a difference between agreeing on an outcome and the implentation to get there.
      - nanis 5y ago
        "US left Afghan airfield at night, didn’t tell new commander"[1] comes to mind. > Before the Afghan army could take control of the airfield about an hour’s drive from the Afghan capital Kabul, it was invaded by a small army of looters, who ransacked barrack after barrack and rummaged through giant storage tents before being evicted, according to Afghan military officials. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/bagram-afghanistan-airfield-us-troops-f3614828364f567593251aaaa167e623 https://apnews.com/article/bagram-afghanistan-airfield-us-tr...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - 5y ago
- nanis 5y ago
  > The APs job Minor correction: The comment references a Reuters article which seems to contradict the oft-repeated assertion: > We gave them every chance to determine their own future. What we could not provide them was the will to fight for that future.[1] [1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/16/remarks-by-president-biden-on-afghanistan/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...

jumelles 5y ago

Fascinating and very sad. Photojournalists like Danish Siddiqui are incredibly brave.

t0mmyb0y 5y ago

These things happen when the gop surrenders to taliban, with official paperwork to boot

hhsbz 5y ago

What was this Indian citizen doing in a country that is not his and is currently deep in war?

aazaa 5y ago

> The security group [in Reuters] approved the embed plan. “We were talking about the Afghan Special Forces, the elite,” said Rogers [Reuters global pictures editor]. “They had all the hospitals at their disposal, all the equipment needed to evacuate, including air support.” Siddiqui would join their headquarters near Kandahar. On display here are the deep miscalculation and disbelief over it. It's a pattern that has unfortunately played out innumerable times in the last 20 years as organizations outside of Afghanistan tried to figure the place out and failed miserably.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Even if they knowingly left him behind, sometimes you have to make hard choices in war. Sacrificing a unit so that no man is left behind is a movie trope, not reality.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

foolinaround 5y ago

The loss of a photo journalist with integrity like Danish Siddiqui is an irreplaceable loss, merely because there really aren't (m)any left. While this situation in Afghanistan was fraught with danger from the start, his reporting in the Delhi riots and UP (a state in India)'s handling of Covid really changed the dynamics of the public intercourse, and also the urgency of the government. He undertook it at personal cost as a muslim. In this way, these photographs were as impactful as the napalm girl photo in My Lai, Vietnam. We like to think of our country as having a free press, but we have one that is completely suborned to a political ideology, etc? Where are the similar photos of the body of the elderly stacked in NJ/NY? Is there a similar level of threat to lives of these reporters? The lack of a properly functioning 4th estate does not bode well for our country.

codetrotter 5y ago
> public intercourse I think you typo’d your way into a different word than you meant here. What you meant to say was public discourse.
- psim1 5y ago
  intercourse | ˈin(t)ərˌkôrs | noun communication or dealings between individuals or groups: everyday social intercourse.
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    And yet if you Google public intercourse the whole first page is all about sex. (Safe search off, probably.) I maintain that public discourse is the pair of words to use.
    - leephillips 5y ago
      I maintain that you should consult a dictionary before telling someone what they should have said. Also, we all make mistakes; the thing is to own up rather than doubling down.

34679 5y ago

The details in the article don't support the headline. >On Tuesday, July 13, Siddiqui joined a successful mission to rescue a policeman who was surrounded by insurgents >Three days later, on July 16, Siddiqui and two Afghan commandos were killed >In the weeks that followed, the Taliban conquered city after city.

ancientworldnow 5y ago
That's because the article is intended to lay blame at the US exit of Afghanistan and imply that the taliban is executing fighters. In reality, media embedded with soldiers in active combat occasionally die which is a tragedy but less useful for propaganda (hence the title).
isleyaardvark 5y ago
I don’t know how you can think that. The July 16 mission was a separate mission. The article goes into detail about that mission and about how he was killed after being left behind when the soldiers retreated during the July 16 mission.

ErikVandeWater 5y ago

> Major-General Haibatullah Alizai, who was the commander of Afghanistan’s Special Operations Corps when it hosted Siddiqui in Kandahar, told Reuters it was evident now that, in fierce fighting, his soldiers withdrew from Spin Boldak and left behind Siddiqui and two commandos accompanying him, mistakenly thinking they had joined the retreating convoy. His account was corroborated by four soldiers who say they witnessed the attack. The article uses the word abandoned, but it's not clear based on this account that he and the two soldiers with him were. Abandonment would imply knowingly leaving them behind. This could definitely be a fog of war situation in which they were expected to have moved and did not. No one thinks straight getting shot at unless they are an experienced professional.

maerF0x0 5y ago

> “If we don’t go, who will?” I just want to take a moment to honor the courage and sentiments of the man behind these words. RIP, may your family be ever proud. They echo MLK's Ive been to the mountain top [1] > That's the question before you tonight. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to my job. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers what will happen to all of the hours that I usually spend in my office every day and every week as a pastor?" The question is not, "If I stop to help this man in need, what will happen to me?" The question is, "If I do not stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to them?" That's the question. or (attributed) Dietrich Bonhoeffer [2] > First they came for the Communists,... there was no one left May we soberly continue to consider these thoughts as we approach world affairs. [1]: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemountaintop.htm https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemou... [2]: http://www.knowyourquotes.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Communists-But-I-Was-Not-A-Communist-So-I-Did-Not-Speak-Out-Then-They-Came-For-The-Socialists-And-The-Trade-Unionists-But-I-Was-Neither-So-I-Did-Not-Speak-Out-Then-They-Ca-Dietrich-Bonhoeffer.html http://www.knowyourquotes.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Commun...