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Providing jail as the alternative fits the definition of forced labour under the 1930 UN Convention on Forced Labour "UN Convention No. 29 concerning forced o

Providing jail as the alternative fits the definition of forced labour under the 1930 UN Convention on Forced Labour "UN Convention No. 29 concerning forced or compulsory labour defines ‘forced or compulsory labour’ as ‘all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily’. " See https://www.un.org/ruleoflaw/files/ILO_Convention_29.pdf https://www.un.org/ruleoflaw/files/ILO_Convention_29.pdf

lelanthran 5y ago
That doesn't say what you think it says. There is no menace of penalty; the person in question is already sentenced to imprisonment for their crime. The option to escape imprisonment via "rehab" or "labour" is done voluntarily while they are under the sentence handed to them. IOW, the convict is offered an option to not serve their imprisonment. They're free to reject it and continue to serve out their imprisonment. This is not forced labour, as their is no penalty imposed on them for refusing the offer.
- goldenkey 5y ago
  The jail time is almost always higher than it would have been under normal circumstances in order to make the choice "forced" without actually being forced. It's an age old trick of plea deals and prosecution perversion.
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    > The jail time is almost always higher than it would have been under normal circumstances in order to make the choice "forced" without actually being forced. It's an age old trick of plea deals and prosecution perversion. Yes it is, and I already said that, but that still doesn't make it forced labour.
    - goldenkey 5y ago
      That's literally the point. It technically isn't but it straightforwardly is. Hence why they are able to get away with it.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  Actually such programs are often a form of "diversion" you haven't actually even been convicted yet. Say someone robs a store to feed their drug habit. In the good form of this we realize that drugs are the root cause and allow someone to complete drug treatment instead of going to prison. If you complete it the charges are dropped and you don't have to live the rest of your life as a felon. People just realized that they could create "Christian" work programs where they mix in a gram of jesus into their 10 tons of hard labor as marketing or flavor if you prefer. 1.Low Level Offense 2. Diversion 3. Slavery 4. Profit
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    > Actually such programs are often a form of "diversion" you haven't actually even been convicted yet. Are you sure? All the cases I know off (including the ones in the article) have these deals made only after conviction but before sentencing[1]. [1] Most people don't realise that those are two separate processes, commonly rolled into a single court date. It is not unusual to have one appearance for judgement (conviction) and a separate one for sentencing.
voxic11 5y ago
That convention was never ratified by the US and forced labor as punishment for crime is explicitly allowed by the 13th amendment.

lelanthran 5y ago

That doesn't say what you think it says. There is no menace of penalty; the person in question is already sentenced to imprisonment for their crime. The option to escape imprisonment via "rehab" or "labour" is done voluntarily while they are under the sentence handed to them. IOW, the convict is offered an option to not serve their imprisonment. They're free to reject it and continue to serve out their imprisonment. This is not forced labour, as their is no penalty imposed on them for refusing the offer.

goldenkey 5y ago
The jail time is almost always higher than it would have been under normal circumstances in order to make the choice "forced" without actually being forced. It's an age old trick of plea deals and prosecution perversion.
- lelanthran 5y ago
  > The jail time is almost always higher than it would have been under normal circumstances in order to make the choice "forced" without actually being forced. It's an age old trick of plea deals and prosecution perversion. Yes it is, and I already said that, but that still doesn't make it forced labour.
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    That's literally the point. It technically isn't but it straightforwardly is. Hence why they are able to get away with it.
michaelmrose 5y ago
Actually such programs are often a form of "diversion" you haven't actually even been convicted yet. Say someone robs a store to feed their drug habit. In the good form of this we realize that drugs are the root cause and allow someone to complete drug treatment instead of going to prison. If you complete it the charges are dropped and you don't have to live the rest of your life as a felon. People just realized that they could create "Christian" work programs where they mix in a gram of jesus into their 10 tons of hard labor as marketing or flavor if you prefer. 1.Low Level Offense 2. Diversion 3. Slavery 4. Profit
- lelanthran 5y ago
  > Actually such programs are often a form of "diversion" you haven't actually even been convicted yet. Are you sure? All the cases I know off (including the ones in the article) have these deals made only after conviction but before sentencing[1]. [1] Most people don't realise that those are two separate processes, commonly rolled into a single court date. It is not unusual to have one appearance for judgement (conviction) and a separate one for sentencing.

voxic11 5y ago

That convention was never ratified by the US and forced labor as punishment for crime is explicitly allowed by the 13th amendment.