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> There's so much low hanging fruit that we are missing out on at the moment that if someone is talking about making sacrifices, they're probably scamming you.

> There's so much low hanging fruit that we are missing out on at the moment that if someone is talking about making sacrifices, they're probably scamming you. That sounds like a very convenient way for us to keep complaining about the problem without ever having to do anything about it. Civilization as we know it is built on this stuff, meaning if we want any significant change in the short term we're going to have to make sacrifices. If you're unwilling to let go of out of season food shipped from half way around the world or disposable plastic trash bags or whatever, will you ever vote for someone who might ban those things? If you're unwilling to pay extra for items manufactured using green techniques, will you vote for the person who pushes regulation toward that end? Frankly, statements like that are why I'm incredibly pessimistic about ever turning our environmental abuses around.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
I'll vote for the regulations because I know it's so not a big deal that it's actually a net positive. You on the other hand seem to have a "no pain, no gain" attitude to this, that we all have to suffer to sort this out. Who told you that? How does banning out of season fruit help? Who would vote for that?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  > You on the other hand seem to have a "no pain, no gain" attitude to this If solving climate change were pain-free we'd have done it already. I find it very concerning that there are so many people like you who seem to think it isn't worth doing anything that inconveniences them.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    Or, there was a massive, orchestrated PR campaign of lies that held us back. And one of their repeated motifs was that without fossil fuels we'd be living in the dark ages. And you bought into it for some reason.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      ...because it's true? Only recently have we been able to wean ourselves off of them for some use-cases. If fossil fuels disappear tomorrow, so does timely international shipping, timely intranational shipping, air travel, a lot of the grid power we take for granted, and probably a thousand other things I'm not even thinking of right now. How the hell is civilization not dependant on fossil fuels in your mind?

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

I'll vote for the regulations because I know it's so not a big deal that it's actually a net positive. You on the other hand seem to have a "no pain, no gain" attitude to this, that we all have to suffer to sort this out. Who told you that? How does banning out of season fruit help? Who would vote for that?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
> You on the other hand seem to have a "no pain, no gain" attitude to this If solving climate change were pain-free we'd have done it already. I find it very concerning that there are so many people like you who seem to think it isn't worth doing anything that inconveniences them.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  Or, there was a massive, orchestrated PR campaign of lies that held us back. And one of their repeated motifs was that without fossil fuels we'd be living in the dark ages. And you bought into it for some reason.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    ...because it's true? Only recently have we been able to wean ourselves off of them for some use-cases. If fossil fuels disappear tomorrow, so does timely international shipping, timely intranational shipping, air travel, a lot of the grid power we take for granted, and probably a thousand other things I'm not even thinking of right now. How the hell is civilization not dependant on fossil fuels in your mind?