7 ms·

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 +

by nanis 5y ago

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 + 2 indeed is four[1] in conversations with colleagues, neighbors, teachers, or even family because you may lose your income or worse if you did not at least remain silent in the face of assertions to the contrary? For those not familiar, here is the beginning of the relevant passage[1]: > 'It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.' > He paused for a few moments, as though to allow what he had been saying to sink in. > 'Do you remember,' he went on, 'writing in your diary, "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four"?' > 'Yes,' said Winston. > O'Brien held up his left hand, its back towards Winston, with the thumb hidden and the four fingers extended. > 'How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?' > 'Four.' > 'And if the party says that it is not four but five—then how many?' > ... [1]: https://2x2.rocks/ https://2x2.rocks/

benrbray 5y ago
You don't indicate a political slant, but this is an alt-right take on American politics if I've ever seen one. I would counter with: For a couple hundred years, Americans insisted 2+2=5. It was even enshrined in law for the first hundred or so years. We eventually agreed on a compromise, 2+2=4.5, but some of our lives depend on the answer to this math problem, so we're not going to stop fighting for 2+2=4. Sure enough, if you work as an engineer, you're going to be fired if your answer isn't within tolerance.
- nanis 5y ago
  > an alt-right take No. Please do not try to label me.
xphilter 5y ago
Ok, I’ll indulge you. What is the 2+2=4 for you that you are prevented from saying?
- da_big_ghey 5y ago
  Not nanis but i have been in places where i couldnt say my opposing as persons talked about gun control. Biggest example in past year is corona though, anybody who disagree with lockdown etc. is anti-mask trump loving redneck in some place, one of which I worked.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  Lol - it turns out it's some antivax conspiracy nonsense that was flagged to death yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28275671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28275671 Orwell indeed.
  - nanis 5y ago
    I am not referring to that argument. There was no "antivax conspiracy nonsense" ... Just people who can't read. I have made no statements regarding vaccination. However, I do consider delaying until after the approval announcement the release of the update to what is known about how many people who are fully vaccinated against Covid19 are dying from Covid19 or being hospitalized due to Covid19 to be suspicious. That is not a conspiracy theory. It happened. Information that was due to be released on Friday was delayed and released after the FDA approval on Monday. The updated information showed that known rates of death from Covid19 among those fully vaccinated against Covid19 continued to increase. Plus, the CDC does not put out a proper time series table[1]. Every week, they overwrite the information from the previous week so one is forced to rely on external snapshots[2] to preserve what should be public record. Plus, many states don't even release or track information about the vaccination status of people who are hospitalized or who die from Covid19. For months now, CDC have been saying: > Ultimately, CDC will use the National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System (NNDSS) to identify vaccine breakthrough cases. What is the holdup? I summarized why you want to care about that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28287440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28287440 None of this is a conspiracy theory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28280087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28280087 [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre... [2]: https://archive.ph/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://archive.ph/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hea...
dougmwne 5y ago
You're absolutely right, even though I suspect I would strongly disagree with some of the things you would assert as self-evident facts. I might feel that the current majority consensus opinion on many things is good and right, but I can still be disturbed when I see the walls closing in on people who dare to think otherwise. The Overton Window is shutting fast and we may all find our fingers crushed sooner or later.
- shadilay 5y ago
  It is not our fingers that will be crushed but our necks.

by nanis 5y ago

benrbray 5y ago

You don't indicate a political slant, but this is an alt-right take on American politics if I've ever seen one. I would counter with: For a couple hundred years, Americans insisted 2+2=5. It was even enshrined in law for the first hundred or so years. We eventually agreed on a compromise, 2+2=4.5, but some of our lives depend on the answer to this math problem, so we're not going to stop fighting for 2+2=4. Sure enough, if you work as an engineer, you're going to be fired if your answer isn't within tolerance.

nanis 5y ago
> an alt-right take No. Please do not try to label me.

xphilter 5y ago

Ok, I’ll indulge you. What is the 2+2=4 for you that you are prevented from saying?

da_big_ghey 5y ago
Not nanis but i have been in places where i couldnt say my opposing as persons talked about gun control. Biggest example in past year is corona though, anybody who disagree with lockdown etc. is anti-mask trump loving redneck in some place, one of which I worked.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mikeyouse 5y ago
Lol - it turns out it's some antivax conspiracy nonsense that was flagged to death yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28275671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28275671 Orwell indeed.
- nanis 5y ago
  I am not referring to that argument. There was no "antivax conspiracy nonsense" ... Just people who can't read. I have made no statements regarding vaccination. However, I do consider delaying until after the approval announcement the release of the update to what is known about how many people who are fully vaccinated against Covid19 are dying from Covid19 or being hospitalized due to Covid19 to be suspicious. That is not a conspiracy theory. It happened. Information that was due to be released on Friday was delayed and released after the FDA approval on Monday. The updated information showed that known rates of death from Covid19 among those fully vaccinated against Covid19 continued to increase. Plus, the CDC does not put out a proper time series table[1]. Every week, they overwrite the information from the previous week so one is forced to rely on external snapshots[2] to preserve what should be public record. Plus, many states don't even release or track information about the vaccination status of people who are hospitalized or who die from Covid19. For months now, CDC have been saying: > Ultimately, CDC will use the National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System (NNDSS) to identify vaccine breakthrough cases. What is the holdup? I summarized why you want to care about that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28287440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28287440 None of this is a conspiracy theory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28280087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28280087 [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre... [2]: https://archive.ph/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://archive.ph/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hea...

dougmwne 5y ago

You're absolutely right, even though I suspect I would strongly disagree with some of the things you would assert as self-evident facts. I might feel that the current majority consensus opinion on many things is good and right, but I can still be disturbed when I see the walls closing in on people who dare to think otherwise. The Overton Window is shutting fast and we may all find our fingers crushed sooner or later.

shadilay 5y ago
It is not our fingers that will be crushed but our necks.