5 ms·

As a slave. He couldn't quit, and wasn't paid.

pvaldes 5y ago
Sounds a lot like doing scientific research then, poor boy... To be fair, giving fresh money to addicts trying to rehab is universally seen as a no-way move, for some reason.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
As opposed to prison? Reading my comment again, "Scam aside...".
- tyingq 5y ago
  It is a prison. They don't go home after their shift. Calling the cell blocks "dorms" doesn't make it not a prison.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Of course it is, obviously. No dispute there. Lets keep to the point. That's irrelevant to the bulk of the article which tries to paint 'hard work' as an atrocity of some stripe. That's what I'm calling out. Other people work in chicken plants without being prisoners. They want to. So the work is hard, admittedly, but not some kind of torture. Hey, the prisoners admit that freely by their actions. The article mentions the guards 'threaten' them with return to prison if they don't work. So they choose to work instead of returning to prison. It's a conscious choice, and clearly they prefer the chicken farm.
    - tyingq 5y ago
      Agreed, though the threat of "going back to prison" may not just be "oh you have 3 months left, so the threat is doing those 3 months in prison". The threat could be doing the entire sentence over. The prison sentence could be longer than the 1 year at the chicken farm. It could include loss of eligibility for deferred adjudication (wiping the record clean). And so on. There's typically strong leverage for diversion programs that's more than just "prison" or "chicken farm".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
lelanthran 5y ago
> As a slave. He couldn't quit, and wasn't paid. That's not what the article said - he could at any time choose the jail option. See my previous reply upthread for why that may not be viable. TLDR: We need more information: what was the sentence length for the jail option and what was the sentence length for the chicken farm option.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  > he could at any time choose the jail option. That's not an option, it is a threat. And it fits the definition of forced labour.
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    > That's not an option, it is a threat. And it fits the definition of forced labour. If you take away the option, they're going to jail anyway, right? They're convicts so they aren't going to escape the punitive measure unless the court allows it. You're literally arguing that, for a convict, putting them in jail if they refuse the alternative is forced labour, but that's ridiculous, because if all the abusive places referenced in the article didn't exist, they'd be in jail anyway. Convicts (i.e. people found guilty of a crime and sentenced to imprisonment) aren't going to go free just because the "rehab" places don't exist. In most jurisdictions convicts get no option - they get the punitive measure whether they like it or not. Giving them an alternative to the punitive measure is not "forced labour" no matter how you try to interpret it.
    - mrtranscendence 5y ago
      I disagree with this characterization, if for no other reason than the fact that the nature of the alternatives might not be entirely clear. And should the convict decide six months in that he's tired of being abused doing dangerous work so that meat suppliers can get free labor, he doesn't get time served -- that six months is just lost.
      - lelanthran 5y ago

Sounds a lot like doing scientific research then, poor boy... To be fair, giving fresh money to addicts trying to rehab is universally seen as a no-way move, for some reason.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

As opposed to prison? Reading my comment again, "Scam aside...".

tyingq 5y ago
It is a prison. They don't go home after their shift. Calling the cell blocks "dorms" doesn't make it not a prison.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Of course it is, obviously. No dispute there. Lets keep to the point. That's irrelevant to the bulk of the article which tries to paint 'hard work' as an atrocity of some stripe. That's what I'm calling out. Other people work in chicken plants without being prisoners. They want to. So the work is hard, admittedly, but not some kind of torture. Hey, the prisoners admit that freely by their actions. The article mentions the guards 'threaten' them with return to prison if they don't work. So they choose to work instead of returning to prison. It's a conscious choice, and clearly they prefer the chicken farm.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Agreed, though the threat of "going back to prison" may not just be "oh you have 3 months left, so the threat is doing those 3 months in prison". The threat could be doing the entire sentence over. The prison sentence could be longer than the 1 year at the chicken farm. It could include loss of eligibility for deferred adjudication (wiping the record clean). And so on. There's typically strong leverage for diversion programs that's more than just "prison" or "chicken farm".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

lelanthran 5y ago

> As a slave. He couldn't quit, and wasn't paid. That's not what the article said - he could at any time choose the jail option. See my previous reply upthread for why that may not be viable. TLDR: We need more information: what was the sentence length for the jail option and what was the sentence length for the chicken farm option.

kwhitefoot 5y ago
> he could at any time choose the jail option. That's not an option, it is a threat. And it fits the definition of forced labour.
- lelanthran 5y ago
  > That's not an option, it is a threat. And it fits the definition of forced labour. If you take away the option, they're going to jail anyway, right? They're convicts so they aren't going to escape the punitive measure unless the court allows it. You're literally arguing that, for a convict, putting them in jail if they refuse the alternative is forced labour, but that's ridiculous, because if all the abusive places referenced in the article didn't exist, they'd be in jail anyway. Convicts (i.e. people found guilty of a crime and sentenced to imprisonment) aren't going to go free just because the "rehab" places don't exist. In most jurisdictions convicts get no option - they get the punitive measure whether they like it or not. Giving them an alternative to the punitive measure is not "forced labour" no matter how you try to interpret it.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    I disagree with this characterization, if for no other reason than the fact that the nature of the alternatives might not be entirely clear. And should the convict decide six months in that he's tired of being abused doing dangerous work so that meat suppliers can get free labor, he doesn't get time served -- that six months is just lost.
    - lelanthran 5y ago