5 ms·

What a horrific article. This is showing me that I am naive in a lot of ways - how much suffering is our society built on?

sneak 5y ago
A huge amount of western industrialized life is built upon wage slavery, the constant threat of being made homeless at gunpoint if one does not work long hours at a completely shitty job. It takes a LOT of garbage haulers, floor sweepers, line cooks, dishwashers, and the like to keep our society humming along. It's ostensibly voluntary, so not the same thing as in TFA, but close. There is also a huge amount of slave labor used in the US's world-leading prison population. Slavery was never really abolished in the US, just limited to prisoners. Correspondingly, the number of black people in prison skyrocketed.
laurent92 5y ago
Well, men were excluded from the UN (or rather ILO) convention against forced labour in 1930, and until the new one in 1957. The lengths people go at, to prove that women were under duress during 2000 years, even though there isn’t a single time when men were healthier than women or even had easier jobs, or a single time when men didn’t take better care of women than of themselves, is astonishing. It would be innocuous if men TODAY didn’t kill themselves at 3-5x the rate of women, were 38% of uni students and descending, and systematically more exposed to violence, while the budgets against sexism are systematically, astonishingly, allocated to women’s betterment, despite them already being most of the tertiary jobs, whereas men are at the bottom, and competing with their life at stake to earn the little bucks that will make them seen by the girls. In the end, men die 13x more at work, whether from work exhaustion, cardiac crisis, or blunt force trauma, and that’s excluding drug dealing and criminality as a form of work that is the only trick some of them find to get some female recognition. But you will see all sorts of strategies to miss that point, some of them being: - Missing the point, - Laughing at the point and claiming the writer is frustrated or a bogan, - Claiming the subset: Taking a set where women are generally vastly healthier with longer lives, and finding a subset problem where women are overrepresented. - Claiming they were oppressed for 2000 years and it justifies a few dead homeless today, - Claiming that being [place any extremely worrysome event lived by women] is worse than being dead, or tortured then killed, or legified, etc. - Tilting the newspapers and turning them upside down to avoid talking about the thousands more problems that men face as a result of their gender, for example being the majority of beaten children and deaths under beatings. - Aggressively excluding men who point it out. We do not care about men. I have seen it everywhere, you can point out a pile of a thousand male bodies while hitting no emotional string at all. Were you under the impression that we lived in a kind world? No. It was all an illusion. An adult-life illusion. It’s just been cleverly hidden from you. Welcome to the second part of your life, kind fellow human with a big heart. It’s tough once you see it, but I would prefer a thousand times living burdened by the blunt truth and by the guilt of the horrors we do to each other, than living in the normal illusion.
- notfromhere 5y ago
  This is pretty nuts and a huge distortion to pretend that women haven’t been systematically discriminated for millennia.
  - laurent92 5y ago
    Take a date and tell me the situation of men at that date. One bias is that we look up, and forget to look down.
    - rajamaka 5y ago
      The oppression of men that you have described, has predominantly been from the hands of men.
      - drdec 5y ago
        That doesn't make it right, easy to address or something to dismiss. The feminist movement showed that it is possible to address gender roles and inequities in society without it being a zero-sum game. Some men have noticed.
      - luckylion 5y ago
        > has predominantly been from the hands of men. That should probably read "rich people", because while, yes, it was usually men doing the dirty work of enslaving other men, it was usually rich families who reaped the rewards.
      - laurent92 5y ago
        Ah right, so men-on-men violence, it doesn’t count? Because all men are pigs, right? Are you asserting that women can’t do anything about it? Try harder: In 1914, they demonstrated so that single men go to war, because they wanted to be protected. And up to today, the men who date are the ones who are feminist, ie the ones who require other men to do things for women. When it’s men-on-men violence, it’s often in the name of women, who will complacently benefit from, for example, men establishing a large company at the expense of the people who were overworked. The ones who date men do turn a blind eye on the competition men face at work, as long as they have a nice date, a nice holiday together or a nice family. But all those require to be at ease with money, risk bankruptcy for those who create a company, truck accidents for those who work day and night, shootings for those who enter a big drug coup, and cardiac arrest at 45 for office jobs. And god forbid, not annoy the missus with those “details”. It’s just risks we’re talking about, why bother her before they are realized.
dougmwne 5y ago
So, so much suffering. The worst part is that we all support this global system of inequality with every purchase and every vote. It is the inescapable consequence of "more for me."

sneak 5y ago

A huge amount of western industrialized life is built upon wage slavery, the constant threat of being made homeless at gunpoint if one does not work long hours at a completely shitty job. It takes a LOT of garbage haulers, floor sweepers, line cooks, dishwashers, and the like to keep our society humming along. It's ostensibly voluntary, so not the same thing as in TFA, but close. There is also a huge amount of slave labor used in the US's world-leading prison population. Slavery was never really abolished in the US, just limited to prisoners. Correspondingly, the number of black people in prison skyrocketed.

laurent92 5y ago

Well, men were excluded from the UN (or rather ILO) convention against forced labour in 1930, and until the new one in 1957. The lengths people go at, to prove that women were under duress during 2000 years, even though there isn’t a single time when men were healthier than women or even had easier jobs, or a single time when men didn’t take better care of women than of themselves, is astonishing. It would be innocuous if men TODAY didn’t kill themselves at 3-5x the rate of women, were 38% of uni students and descending, and systematically more exposed to violence, while the budgets against sexism are systematically, astonishingly, allocated to women’s betterment, despite them already being most of the tertiary jobs, whereas men are at the bottom, and competing with their life at stake to earn the little bucks that will make them seen by the girls. In the end, men die 13x more at work, whether from work exhaustion, cardiac crisis, or blunt force trauma, and that’s excluding drug dealing and criminality as a form of work that is the only trick some of them find to get some female recognition. But you will see all sorts of strategies to miss that point, some of them being: - Missing the point, - Laughing at the point and claiming the writer is frustrated or a bogan, - Claiming the subset: Taking a set where women are generally vastly healthier with longer lives, and finding a subset problem where women are overrepresented. - Claiming they were oppressed for 2000 years and it justifies a few dead homeless today, - Claiming that being [place any extremely worrysome event lived by women] is worse than being dead, or tortured then killed, or legified, etc. - Tilting the newspapers and turning them upside down to avoid talking about the thousands more problems that men face as a result of their gender, for example being the majority of beaten children and deaths under beatings. - Aggressively excluding men who point it out. We do not care about men. I have seen it everywhere, you can point out a pile of a thousand male bodies while hitting no emotional string at all. Were you under the impression that we lived in a kind world? No. It was all an illusion. An adult-life illusion. It’s just been cleverly hidden from you. Welcome to the second part of your life, kind fellow human with a big heart. It’s tough once you see it, but I would prefer a thousand times living burdened by the blunt truth and by the guilt of the horrors we do to each other, than living in the normal illusion.

notfromhere 5y ago
This is pretty nuts and a huge distortion to pretend that women haven’t been systematically discriminated for millennia.
- laurent92 5y ago
  Take a date and tell me the situation of men at that date. One bias is that we look up, and forget to look down.
  - rajamaka 5y ago
    The oppression of men that you have described, has predominantly been from the hands of men.
    - drdec 5y ago
      That doesn't make it right, easy to address or something to dismiss. The feminist movement showed that it is possible to address gender roles and inequities in society without it being a zero-sum game. Some men have noticed.
    - luckylion 5y ago
      > has predominantly been from the hands of men. That should probably read "rich people", because while, yes, it was usually men doing the dirty work of enslaving other men, it was usually rich families who reaped the rewards.
    - laurent92 5y ago
      Ah right, so men-on-men violence, it doesn’t count? Because all men are pigs, right? Are you asserting that women can’t do anything about it? Try harder: In 1914, they demonstrated so that single men go to war, because they wanted to be protected. And up to today, the men who date are the ones who are feminist, ie the ones who require other men to do things for women. When it’s men-on-men violence, it’s often in the name of women, who will complacently benefit from, for example, men establishing a large company at the expense of the people who were overworked. The ones who date men do turn a blind eye on the competition men face at work, as long as they have a nice date, a nice holiday together or a nice family. But all those require to be at ease with money, risk bankruptcy for those who create a company, truck accidents for those who work day and night, shootings for those who enter a big drug coup, and cardiac arrest at 45 for office jobs. And god forbid, not annoy the missus with those “details”. It’s just risks we’re talking about, why bother her before they are realized.

dougmwne 5y ago

So, so much suffering. The worst part is that we all support this global system of inequality with every purchase and every vote. It is the inescapable consequence of "more for me."