5 ms·

Why? They're clearly an abusive company, just don't do business with them.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
UK government had to plead and beg for a year untill it was allowed to release an app to let half the population using iPhone register their legal rights: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/04/10/apple-agrees-to-open-iphone-nfc-for-uks-brexit-app-by-end-of-2019 https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/04/10/apple-agrees-to-o...
57844743385 5y ago
Because that’s where the users are.
michaelt 5y ago
The options are: * Faceless multinational A, that gives lip service to privacy and doesn't give a shit about freedom * Faceless multinational B, that gives lip service to freedom and doesn't give a shit about privacy * Trying to kickstart an alternative ecosystem - a task that Microsoft, one of the richest companies in the world, was unsuccessful at. * Not owning a smartphone
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kilroy123 5y ago
  We desperately need a true linux phone. No, not the damn pinephone which is not ready to be your moms daily driver phone. I'm talking one that actually works and is on par with linux desktops.
  - metalliqaz 5y ago
    After decades Linux still hasn't penetrated the PC desktop. Not holding my breath for a viable mobile ecosystem.
  - ayushnix 5y ago
    If the state of Linux on desktops is anything to go by, Linux on smartphones will never be a success story either. I frequently regret buying a ThinkPad with AMD CPU/GPU after listening to the propaganda about open source GPU drivers. My laptop was basically a paperweight for a month until I downgraded linux-firmware package. No one wants to deal with this shit.
    - Hackbraten 5y ago
      > No one wants to deal with this shit. YMMV but I do. That kind of hassle is the tax that I’m perfectly willing to pay for having FOSS stuff. Let’s celebrate that we have options.
    - shaan7 5y ago
      Curious, which ThinkPad was this? I got a T14s with AMD last year and it is one of best laptops I've used till date, and works with Linux out of the box, incl graphics, networking, USB-C docks etc.
      - ayushnix 5y ago
        The ThinkPad model doesn't really matter because all of them would use the same AMDGPU driver and firmware assuming it has AMD hardware. If you're interested, here's a thread about the issue me and several other people have been facing. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=266358 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=266358 The issue has been "fixed" for now by downgrading to the March 2021 release of Linux Firmware for most people. Of course, this isn't really a fix.
  - Hackbraten 5y ago
    I’d prefer a libre phone that barely works than any of the other bullets.
    - spiderice 5y ago
      I'm assuming that's what you use then? What kind of phone is it?
      - Hackbraten 5y ago
        Waiting for my Librem 5, ordered a few weeks ago. If all goes well, I’ll have it next spring.
        spiderice 5y ago
        Interesting. I didn't know much about it other than having heard the name until I just looked it up. The idea of physical kill switches is pretty cool. My only question is, given that the OS isn't based on Android, does it basically not have any apps? The website mentions that it sort of turns HTML 5 apps in to some sort of native-like app by downloading it and sandboxing it. Is that the only sort of apps that are available for it? Or do you install full Linux applications on it? The website doesn't make it super clear.
        Hackbraten 5y ago
        My (limited) understanding is: the Librem phone has a very limited number of apps. The vendor tackles existing GTK (?) apps and tries to make them work with touch. But it seems to do so on a best-effort basis so nothing is guaranteed. I acknowledge that Purism is a small company and that it can only do so much. In case it fails, my gamble is that enough people are going to contribute and keep the most important apps working. I’ve found a list of apps here: https://linmobapps.frama.io/ https://linmobapps.frama.io/
  - arsome 5y ago
    It's clear that the more traditional "Linux" operating systems on the PinePhone/Librem are just not mature, but what about a PinePhone/Librem loaded with stock AOSP and F-Droid, no GApps. Lots of stuff just won't be available but that's going to be true no matter what non-Apple/Google platform you went to. Outside of that though, it should generally provide a fairly user-friendly experience.
  - swiley 5y ago
    Linux desktops got to where they are by people using and contributing to “damn window managers that your mom can’t daily drive.”
  - superice 5y ago
    Let's face it, that is not going to happen. I can barely get bluetooth audio to work on my desktop, a truly functional purely linux ecosystem for phones that my mom can use is at least a decade away (if possible at all).
  - bogwog 5y ago
    What we desperately need is for the tech giants and their mono/duopolies to be broken up, or for regulators to force them to make changes to their business in ways that allow for actual competition. When that happens, the world might have more choices than just Google and Apple for smartphones, or Microsoft and Apple for desktop/laptops.
  - Shorel 5y ago
    I still remember rooting for the Ubuntu Edge phone and watching it fail and get cancelled. The issue here is that "we" are not many people. https://techmonitor.ai/techonology/software/why-did-the-ubuntu-edge-fail https://techmonitor.ai/techonology/software/why-did-the-ubun...
- jjgreen 5y ago
  Your option 4 works fine for me.
madeofpalk 5y ago
> Why? They're clearly an abusive company, just don't do business with them. The market just does not have the ability to act here. Facebook literally incited genocide on the other side of the world and Facebook experienced zero repercussions
bogwog 5y ago
This is a website of mostly software developers and people working in tech. If you fall into that demographic, how do you avoid doing business with Apple? They're entrenched in the duopoly on desktop, the duopoly on mobile, and the duopoly on browsers. Refusing to do business with Apple will only make you feel good about yourself, but it will significantly hurt your career prospects if you're a working developer, and ruin any hope of success if you're an entrepreneur trying to start or run a tech company. For all intents and purposes, they're a monopoly. If you're a fan of the Hasbro game, you might disagree on the exact definition, but Apple (and peers) is unquestionably in a position where they're immune to market forces. Capitalism doesn't work right when you have companies like that.
- jjgreen 5y ago
  If you fall into that demographic, how do you avoid doing business with Apple? Fairly easily, I have an X1 running Linux as my dev machine (I'm backend/ML) and don't have a phone. No need to worry about my career, I'm doing OK thanks.

UK government had to plead and beg for a year untill it was allowed to release an app to let half the population using iPhone register their legal rights: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/04/10/apple-agrees-to-open-iphone-nfc-for-uks-brexit-app-by-end-of-2019 https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/04/10/apple-agrees-to-o...

57844743385 5y ago

Because that’s where the users are.

michaelt 5y ago

The options are: * Faceless multinational A, that gives lip service to privacy and doesn't give a shit about freedom * Faceless multinational B, that gives lip service to freedom and doesn't give a shit about privacy * Trying to kickstart an alternative ecosystem - a task that Microsoft, one of the richest companies in the world, was unsuccessful at. * Not owning a smartphone

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kilroy123 5y ago
We desperately need a true linux phone. No, not the damn pinephone which is not ready to be your moms daily driver phone. I'm talking one that actually works and is on par with linux desktops.
- metalliqaz 5y ago
  After decades Linux still hasn't penetrated the PC desktop. Not holding my breath for a viable mobile ecosystem.
- ayushnix 5y ago
  If the state of Linux on desktops is anything to go by, Linux on smartphones will never be a success story either. I frequently regret buying a ThinkPad with AMD CPU/GPU after listening to the propaganda about open source GPU drivers. My laptop was basically a paperweight for a month until I downgraded linux-firmware package. No one wants to deal with this shit.
  - Hackbraten 5y ago
    > No one wants to deal with this shit. YMMV but I do. That kind of hassle is the tax that I’m perfectly willing to pay for having FOSS stuff. Let’s celebrate that we have options.
  - shaan7 5y ago
    Curious, which ThinkPad was this? I got a T14s with AMD last year and it is one of best laptops I've used till date, and works with Linux out of the box, incl graphics, networking, USB-C docks etc.
    - ayushnix 5y ago
      The ThinkPad model doesn't really matter because all of them would use the same AMDGPU driver and firmware assuming it has AMD hardware. If you're interested, here's a thread about the issue me and several other people have been facing. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=266358 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=266358 The issue has been "fixed" for now by downgrading to the March 2021 release of Linux Firmware for most people. Of course, this isn't really a fix.
- Hackbraten 5y ago
  I’d prefer a libre phone that barely works than any of the other bullets.
  - spiderice 5y ago
    I'm assuming that's what you use then? What kind of phone is it?
    - Hackbraten 5y ago
      Waiting for my Librem 5, ordered a few weeks ago. If all goes well, I’ll have it next spring.
      - spiderice 5y ago
        Interesting. I didn't know much about it other than having heard the name until I just looked it up. The idea of physical kill switches is pretty cool. My only question is, given that the OS isn't based on Android, does it basically not have any apps? The website mentions that it sort of turns HTML 5 apps in to some sort of native-like app by downloading it and sandboxing it. Is that the only sort of apps that are available for it? Or do you install full Linux applications on it? The website doesn't make it super clear.
        Hackbraten 5y ago
        My (limited) understanding is: the Librem phone has a very limited number of apps. The vendor tackles existing GTK (?) apps and tries to make them work with touch. But it seems to do so on a best-effort basis so nothing is guaranteed. I acknowledge that Purism is a small company and that it can only do so much. In case it fails, my gamble is that enough people are going to contribute and keep the most important apps working. I’ve found a list of apps here: https://linmobapps.frama.io/ https://linmobapps.frama.io/
- arsome 5y ago
  It's clear that the more traditional "Linux" operating systems on the PinePhone/Librem are just not mature, but what about a PinePhone/Librem loaded with stock AOSP and F-Droid, no GApps. Lots of stuff just won't be available but that's going to be true no matter what non-Apple/Google platform you went to. Outside of that though, it should generally provide a fairly user-friendly experience.
- swiley 5y ago
  Linux desktops got to where they are by people using and contributing to “damn window managers that your mom can’t daily drive.”
- superice 5y ago
  Let's face it, that is not going to happen. I can barely get bluetooth audio to work on my desktop, a truly functional purely linux ecosystem for phones that my mom can use is at least a decade away (if possible at all).
- bogwog 5y ago
  What we desperately need is for the tech giants and their mono/duopolies to be broken up, or for regulators to force them to make changes to their business in ways that allow for actual competition. When that happens, the world might have more choices than just Google and Apple for smartphones, or Microsoft and Apple for desktop/laptops.
- Shorel 5y ago
  I still remember rooting for the Ubuntu Edge phone and watching it fail and get cancelled. The issue here is that "we" are not many people. https://techmonitor.ai/techonology/software/why-did-the-ubuntu-edge-fail https://techmonitor.ai/techonology/software/why-did-the-ubun...
jjgreen 5y ago
Your option 4 works fine for me.

madeofpalk 5y ago

> Why? They're clearly an abusive company, just don't do business with them. The market just does not have the ability to act here. Facebook literally incited genocide on the other side of the world and Facebook experienced zero repercussions

bogwog 5y ago

This is a website of mostly software developers and people working in tech. If you fall into that demographic, how do you avoid doing business with Apple? They're entrenched in the duopoly on desktop, the duopoly on mobile, and the duopoly on browsers. Refusing to do business with Apple will only make you feel good about yourself, but it will significantly hurt your career prospects if you're a working developer, and ruin any hope of success if you're an entrepreneur trying to start or run a tech company. For all intents and purposes, they're a monopoly. If you're a fan of the Hasbro game, you might disagree on the exact definition, but Apple (and peers) is unquestionably in a position where they're immune to market forces. Capitalism doesn't work right when you have companies like that.

jjgreen 5y ago
If you fall into that demographic, how do you avoid doing business with Apple? Fairly easily, I have an X1 running Linux as my dev machine (I'm backend/ML) and don't have a phone. No need to worry about my career, I'm doing OK thanks.