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I'm for reducing the number of cars on the road, but I do think that street parking is already a pretty big step up from the alternative of like huge parking lo

by rtpg 5y ago

I'm for reducing the number of cars on the road, but I do think that street parking is already a pretty big step up from the alternative of like huge parking lots. And like for deliveries... what do you want people to do? Not stop in front of the place they are delivering? If there's an argument for it being a public space, it's also a public space for things like deliveries, dropping people off, etc. "People should be more careful" is a glib thing to say for this stuff, and I think we should make improvements to things, but if we're talking about public space, cyclists are _also_ not the only thing on the road and accomodations can be made for stuff like delivery

quantum_magpie 5y ago
>And like for deliveries... what do you want people to do? Not stop in front of the place they are delivering? When you make a delivery, do you just stop dead in the middle of the lane you were driving on? If yes, please proceed. If not, why not? Don't you want to stop in front of the place you are delivering to? Why do you think that it is ok to completely block bicycle lane for the same purpose, but it's not ok to block a car lane? For an extra point, assume the car lane is a single-lane one-way road, and the delivery takes 5 minutes.
- rtpg 5y ago
  Where I live, there are many "1.5 lane" roads. Roads that are both ways, but there's not _that_ much space. Sometimes people pull over. You then have to drive around people. So, yes, you stop "in the car lane" and it affects people. There are also times where you change lanes because of obstructions. Just like intersections, stop lights, so many things that prevent the "just speed right ahead without any concern in the world" use case. There are safety reasons for isolating bike/pedestrian traffic. But acting like it's uniquely unfair to bikes to have any form of obstruction... this is what roads are. Shared area for movement.
  - quantum_magpie 5y ago
    Good to hear! I wonder how car drivers would react if an uber delivery guy would park a bicycle in the car lane next to a bicycle lane to make a delivery. And while I do agree that it isn't uniquely unfair for bicycles, it seemes that when there is no isolation between a car lane and a bicycle lane, during the busy hours there is a random car, van, taxi parked every 30-50 meters. (Well, used to be, 2 years ago)
ashtonkem 5y ago
> And like for deliveries... what do you want people to do? Not stop in front of the place they are delivering? Where do you live where the parallel parking spots in front of businesses are always open? Where I’ve lived things like UPS will just stop in the road if necessary, and other cars will go around. Deliveries in areas without lots of parallel parking is a solved problem; we don’t need to pretend like reducing or eliminating street level parking will have unknown impacts on things like delivery vehicles.

by rtpg 5y ago

quantum_magpie 5y ago

>And like for deliveries... what do you want people to do? Not stop in front of the place they are delivering? When you make a delivery, do you just stop dead in the middle of the lane you were driving on? If yes, please proceed. If not, why not? Don't you want to stop in front of the place you are delivering to? Why do you think that it is ok to completely block bicycle lane for the same purpose, but it's not ok to block a car lane? For an extra point, assume the car lane is a single-lane one-way road, and the delivery takes 5 minutes.

rtpg 5y ago
Where I live, there are many "1.5 lane" roads. Roads that are both ways, but there's not _that_ much space. Sometimes people pull over. You then have to drive around people. So, yes, you stop "in the car lane" and it affects people. There are also times where you change lanes because of obstructions. Just like intersections, stop lights, so many things that prevent the "just speed right ahead without any concern in the world" use case. There are safety reasons for isolating bike/pedestrian traffic. But acting like it's uniquely unfair to bikes to have any form of obstruction... this is what roads are. Shared area for movement.
- quantum_magpie 5y ago
  Good to hear! I wonder how car drivers would react if an uber delivery guy would park a bicycle in the car lane next to a bicycle lane to make a delivery. And while I do agree that it isn't uniquely unfair for bicycles, it seemes that when there is no isolation between a car lane and a bicycle lane, during the busy hours there is a random car, van, taxi parked every 30-50 meters. (Well, used to be, 2 years ago)

ashtonkem 5y ago

> And like for deliveries... what do you want people to do? Not stop in front of the place they are delivering? Where do you live where the parallel parking spots in front of businesses are always open? Where I’ve lived things like UPS will just stop in the road if necessary, and other cars will go around. Deliveries in areas without lots of parallel parking is a solved problem; we don’t need to pretend like reducing or eliminating street level parking will have unknown impacts on things like delivery vehicles.