4 ms·

Obviously I can't speak to your own personal experience, but I've done a surprising amount of biking on streets that have added bikes lanes, and my experience i

by zamfi 5y ago

Obviously I can't speak to your own personal experience, but I've done a surprising amount of biking on streets that have added bikes lanes, and my experience is that the bike lanes tend to improve my subjective experience of biking on those streets substantially. Many of those streets, to be fair, have bike lines that are shifted 3+ feet away from the parking lane, with stripes to indicate the door zone -- which is a huge benefit, frankly, over the streets that don't have this. Another change that I'm 100% in favor of is the removal of a traffic lane to allow this: this often enables right-turns to be explicitly marked as crossing a bike lane, and drivers tend to be more careful there (again, just my experience). I've also biked on streets that became "super sharrow" streets: one lane striped with a giant green stripe that supposedly provides a big visual indicator that a bike can use the full lane. This was terrible. > We should have more bike infrastructure, but putting money into this garbage is a mistake. What bike infrastructure would you like to see, if not bike lanes?

jfim 5y ago
> Many of those streets, to be fair, have bike lines that are shifted 3+ feet away from the parking lane, with stripes to indicate the door zone That sounds pretty great. Unfortunately in my area the bike lanes are straight into the door zone (see for example https://goo.gl/maps/nMnKZEVZduEfkups8 https://goo.gl/maps/nMnKZEVZduEfkups8) and this seems to be the general design for bike lanes in the South Bay. In fact, the city of Sunnyvale's own bike map [0] says to avoid the four feet door zone, yet the bike lane is less than 4 feet wide and straight in the door zone. It's frustrating. You'd think they'd favor the safety of the unprotected squishy humans over the ones in two ton metal boxes, but it seems like the opposite most of the time. [0] https://sunnyvale.ca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=24003 https://sunnyvale.ca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?Blo...
- cycomanic 5y ago
  Actually in Germany bike lanes are typically on the other side next to the sidewalk which in my experience is much more dangerous. It gives the indication to cars that bikes are more like pedestrians, they get often overlooked at intersections, dooring is an even bigger issue, because people getting out the car to the street side tend to least look back to avoid cars coming and next to the sidewalk one also has to deal with pedestrians who don't pay attention. In my experience, the more in the way of cars you are as a cyclist the safer you are. You still need to have clear markings, but you should always be in sight of drivers IMO, as an active participant in traffic.
  - de_keyboard 5y ago
    Bike lanes where traffic has priority when turning across are a disaster: - Gives cyclist false sense of security, since they need to yield to vehicles turning across "their lane" - Little notice given to drivers that they need to take care, since they have right of way - Cyclists have to stop at every side road, which can make taking the bike path as slow as walking Experience cyclists won't use them and novice cyclists are given an unsafe and slow route; they will drive instead. What a waste of public funds. A better solution, as seen in NL and some parts of London, is to make the motorist give way or even remove the vehicle entrance entirely. The transport mix you get is the transport mix you build for.
  - jfim 5y ago
    > In my experience, the more in the way of cars you are as a cyclist the safer you are. You still need to have clear markings, but you should always be in sight of drivers IMO, as an active participant in traffic. I definitely agree with you that people on bikes should be in the way of cars because that's what gives them the most visibility, but I'd disagree with the marking parts. See the commute post I have a little bit below, the only markings on that commute on streets are a few sharrows, no bike lanes at all. What needs to happen is for bikes to be perceived as slow moving vehicles, not unlike tractors in rural areas. People overtake the tractors as soon as it's safe to do so and don't honk at them. That happens as soon as there is enough of a critical mass of people on bikes on streets.
lmm 5y ago
> What bike infrastructure would you like to see, if not bike lanes? Junctions are where drivers tend to kill cyclists, so junction improvements are far more effective than anything along the "normal" road. Bike boxes and, ideally, dedicated light phases for bikes help far more than lanes.
- komali2 5y ago
  > dedicated light phases for bikes help far more than lanes. We have that in SF and in the year before COVID I basically spent every morning commute berating at least one person that tried to cross in front of me on a bike-only light. It's really hard for Americans to give up the right-turn-on-red. In NYC they just hand out tickets like candy to people who don't know that right-turn-on-red is illegal through essentially the whole city. In 2019 though I didn't see any enforcement at all of bike-protection lights and lanes.
  - mvanbaak 5y ago
    This is the perfect use-case for cameras. Here in .nl you dont get a ticket from a police officer. The camera takes the picture and the fine is there in your mailbox the next week ;-)
- evandijk70 5y ago
  In our hometown, a big project was just finished where most busy intersections were replaced with bike tunnels. It was an expensive project, but now that it's finished it saves a lot of time in the morning commute for both cyclists and drivers.
  - aembleton 5y ago
    Which town is that? I'm interested in reading more about the bike tunnels
chapium 5y ago
I think decreasing parking and providing a central lane for cars to pass makes a lot of sense. Segregating cycle traffic creates dangerous intersections.
- de_keyboard 5y ago
  Segregating cycle traffic can create dangerous intersections, but well designed intersections do not. For example, you can give the cycle lane its own light phase. There is no question that well designed segregated infrastructure is safer than no cycle infrastructure at all.
billfruit 5y ago
Is dockless app based bike sharing popular in US cities?
- chapium 5y ago
  No, but dock based ones are.
jfim 5y ago
> What bike infrastructure would you like to see, if not bike lanes? Actually, let me show you my commute when I was a student several years ago. This is in North America. 1. Walk to the local park (https://goo.gl/maps/CdCinYAp24MgCBBm7 https://goo.gl/maps/CdCinYAp24MgCBBm7) 2. Grab a bicycle from the local bike sharing system (https://goo.gl/maps/46vzmXzx5CPSPFRE9 https://goo.gl/maps/46vzmXzx5CPSPFRE9) 3. Bike a minute to the bike path (https://goo.gl/maps/gpkXGcXxMHYH4epn7 https://goo.gl/maps/gpkXGcXxMHYH4epn7) 4. Hop on a bike path, wave to the other cyclists (https://goo.gl/maps/JiRSC6yhwqanRn1K7 https://goo.gl/maps/JiRSC6yhwqanRn1K7) 5. Bike some more (https://goo.gl/maps/jvSoQQ2rmB1F2NNo8 https://goo.gl/maps/jvSoQQ2rmB1F2NNo8) 6. And then some more (https://goo.gl/maps/u2WyLVGvJBfNL5718 https://goo.gl/maps/u2WyLVGvJBfNL5718) 7. And then even more (https://goo.gl/maps/LcxSoUZ9BzgsovU97 https://goo.gl/maps/LcxSoUZ9BzgsovU97) 8. Exit the bike path (https://goo.gl/maps/AyqzZUuo89osSEPf6 https://goo.gl/maps/AyqzZUuo89osSEPf6) 9. Bike on surface streets, sharing the street (https://goo.gl/maps/NNyhCU9gZEXVxk5D8 https://goo.gl/maps/NNyhCU9gZEXVxk5D8) 10. Arrive at destination, drop off bike at the bike sharing system dock (https://goo.gl/maps/qCy5GESLL4AxHuL99 https://goo.gl/maps/qCy5GESLL4AxHuL99) That's an example of good bike infrastructure. For the parts where bikes interact with cars on low speed streets, the streets are either narrow so that cars drive slowly, or there is another lane for cars to pass bikes easily. Note the lack of painted lanes; bikes and cars share the street, and cars pass bikes whenever it's safe to do so. Also note that in most of these street views perspectives, you can pan the camera and see other people biking.

by zamfi 5y ago

jfim 5y ago

> Many of those streets, to be fair, have bike lines that are shifted 3+ feet away from the parking lane, with stripes to indicate the door zone That sounds pretty great. Unfortunately in my area the bike lanes are straight into the door zone (see for example https://goo.gl/maps/nMnKZEVZduEfkups8 https://goo.gl/maps/nMnKZEVZduEfkups8) and this seems to be the general design for bike lanes in the South Bay. In fact, the city of Sunnyvale's own bike map [0] says to avoid the four feet door zone, yet the bike lane is less than 4 feet wide and straight in the door zone. It's frustrating. You'd think they'd favor the safety of the unprotected squishy humans over the ones in two ton metal boxes, but it seems like the opposite most of the time. [0] https://sunnyvale.ca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=24003 https://sunnyvale.ca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?Blo...

cycomanic 5y ago
Actually in Germany bike lanes are typically on the other side next to the sidewalk which in my experience is much more dangerous. It gives the indication to cars that bikes are more like pedestrians, they get often overlooked at intersections, dooring is an even bigger issue, because people getting out the car to the street side tend to least look back to avoid cars coming and next to the sidewalk one also has to deal with pedestrians who don't pay attention. In my experience, the more in the way of cars you are as a cyclist the safer you are. You still need to have clear markings, but you should always be in sight of drivers IMO, as an active participant in traffic.
- de_keyboard 5y ago
  Bike lanes where traffic has priority when turning across are a disaster: - Gives cyclist false sense of security, since they need to yield to vehicles turning across "their lane" - Little notice given to drivers that they need to take care, since they have right of way - Cyclists have to stop at every side road, which can make taking the bike path as slow as walking Experience cyclists won't use them and novice cyclists are given an unsafe and slow route; they will drive instead. What a waste of public funds. A better solution, as seen in NL and some parts of London, is to make the motorist give way or even remove the vehicle entrance entirely. The transport mix you get is the transport mix you build for.
- jfim 5y ago
  > In my experience, the more in the way of cars you are as a cyclist the safer you are. You still need to have clear markings, but you should always be in sight of drivers IMO, as an active participant in traffic. I definitely agree with you that people on bikes should be in the way of cars because that's what gives them the most visibility, but I'd disagree with the marking parts. See the commute post I have a little bit below, the only markings on that commute on streets are a few sharrows, no bike lanes at all. What needs to happen is for bikes to be perceived as slow moving vehicles, not unlike tractors in rural areas. People overtake the tractors as soon as it's safe to do so and don't honk at them. That happens as soon as there is enough of a critical mass of people on bikes on streets.

lmm 5y ago

> What bike infrastructure would you like to see, if not bike lanes? Junctions are where drivers tend to kill cyclists, so junction improvements are far more effective than anything along the "normal" road. Bike boxes and, ideally, dedicated light phases for bikes help far more than lanes.

komali2 5y ago
> dedicated light phases for bikes help far more than lanes. We have that in SF and in the year before COVID I basically spent every morning commute berating at least one person that tried to cross in front of me on a bike-only light. It's really hard for Americans to give up the right-turn-on-red. In NYC they just hand out tickets like candy to people who don't know that right-turn-on-red is illegal through essentially the whole city. In 2019 though I didn't see any enforcement at all of bike-protection lights and lanes.
- mvanbaak 5y ago
  This is the perfect use-case for cameras. Here in .nl you dont get a ticket from a police officer. The camera takes the picture and the fine is there in your mailbox the next week ;-)
evandijk70 5y ago
In our hometown, a big project was just finished where most busy intersections were replaced with bike tunnels. It was an expensive project, but now that it's finished it saves a lot of time in the morning commute for both cyclists and drivers.
- aembleton 5y ago
  Which town is that? I'm interested in reading more about the bike tunnels

chapium 5y ago

I think decreasing parking and providing a central lane for cars to pass makes a lot of sense. Segregating cycle traffic creates dangerous intersections.

de_keyboard 5y ago
Segregating cycle traffic can create dangerous intersections, but well designed intersections do not. For example, you can give the cycle lane its own light phase. There is no question that well designed segregated infrastructure is safer than no cycle infrastructure at all.

billfruit 5y ago

Is dockless app based bike sharing popular in US cities?

chapium 5y ago
No, but dock based ones are.

jfim 5y ago

> What bike infrastructure would you like to see, if not bike lanes? Actually, let me show you my commute when I was a student several years ago. This is in North America. 1. Walk to the local park (https://goo.gl/maps/CdCinYAp24MgCBBm7 https://goo.gl/maps/CdCinYAp24MgCBBm7) 2. Grab a bicycle from the local bike sharing system (https://goo.gl/maps/46vzmXzx5CPSPFRE9 https://goo.gl/maps/46vzmXzx5CPSPFRE9) 3. Bike a minute to the bike path (https://goo.gl/maps/gpkXGcXxMHYH4epn7 https://goo.gl/maps/gpkXGcXxMHYH4epn7) 4. Hop on a bike path, wave to the other cyclists (https://goo.gl/maps/JiRSC6yhwqanRn1K7 https://goo.gl/maps/JiRSC6yhwqanRn1K7) 5. Bike some more (https://goo.gl/maps/jvSoQQ2rmB1F2NNo8 https://goo.gl/maps/jvSoQQ2rmB1F2NNo8) 6. And then some more (https://goo.gl/maps/u2WyLVGvJBfNL5718 https://goo.gl/maps/u2WyLVGvJBfNL5718) 7. And then even more (https://goo.gl/maps/LcxSoUZ9BzgsovU97 https://goo.gl/maps/LcxSoUZ9BzgsovU97) 8. Exit the bike path (https://goo.gl/maps/AyqzZUuo89osSEPf6 https://goo.gl/maps/AyqzZUuo89osSEPf6) 9. Bike on surface streets, sharing the street (https://goo.gl/maps/NNyhCU9gZEXVxk5D8 https://goo.gl/maps/NNyhCU9gZEXVxk5D8) 10. Arrive at destination, drop off bike at the bike sharing system dock (https://goo.gl/maps/qCy5GESLL4AxHuL99 https://goo.gl/maps/qCy5GESLL4AxHuL99) That's an example of good bike infrastructure. For the parts where bikes interact with cars on low speed streets, the streets are either narrow so that cars drive slowly, or there is another lane for cars to pass bikes easily. Note the lack of painted lanes; bikes and cars share the street, and cars pass bikes whenever it's safe to do so. Also note that in most of these street views perspectives, you can pan the camera and see other people biking.