2 ms·
Yes, in the broadest sense we want to discourage crimes like murder, rape, assault, and theft. I don’t think anyone reasonable disagrees with this concept. The
by ashtonkem 5y ago
Yes, in the broadest sense we want to discourage crimes like murder, rape, assault, and theft. I don’t think anyone reasonable disagrees with this concept. The issue I’m raising is that what the definition of things like “rape” and “murder” is where problems start.
My cynical point is that socially we tend to define “real crimes” in such a way to reinforce existing power hierarchies. Steal from the register and face prosecution, steal from your employee and maybe be forced to pay it back (maybe). Shoot your neighbor and get executed by the state, poison the river and face a civil case, starve foreign infants and face no consequences whatsoever. Morally all of these are awful things, but which ones get criminalized and prosecuted is extremely selective. The rich and powerful often not only get selective treatment when prosecuted, but the kind of violence that can bring is often not even criminalized at all.
My most horrifying example is the fact that until the 1990s it wasn’t legally possible for a man to be charged with raping his wife in some states. 13 states still treat marital rape as a lesser crime than rape of a non-spouse. I think we’d all agree that punishing rape is a good thing for the justice system to be doing, but that’s hardly sufficient when the law has such obvious holes in it.
- epicureanideal 5y agoI agree with you, but I do think that as a society we need to think about mechanisms to prevent false accusations and wrongful convictions. Both sexes can have immoral motivations [1]. In general, people are more likely to believe the word of a woman over the word of a man. So if a woman accuses a man of something, unless he can prove his innocence, he's got I would estimate a 3/4 chance of being found guilty of whatever the crime is. I think we need some way to rebalance that. All laws and prosecutorial systems should be designed with misuse in mind, because misuse will happen. We should always think, "if I felt wronged by some person and wanted to get revenge, using the system as a weapon and being willing to lie, could I successfully use the system to get my revenge?" And I think in many cases in our current systems the answer is yes, misuse is very much possible. I won't even bother to describe any scenarios, because I'm sure we can all imagine them. Well, here's one [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDpvwWWzJuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDpvwWWzJuk [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLowHT_ytBs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLowHT_ytBs Other links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGE-3ioAlmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGE-3ioAlmQ
- Falling3 5y agoI don't actually disagree with anything you've said... but I don't know what point you're trying to make in the context of replying to the parent comment.
- ashtonkem 5y agoI was genuinely wondering too.
- epicureanideal 5y agoI had to answer in a bit of a roundabout way to avoid being mistakenly thought to be saying things I'm not saying. It's tough these days.
- ashtonkem 5y agoNow nobody has any clue what you’re saying, which is maybe not great, but probably not as bad as whatever you’re fearing.
- Falling3 5y agoI still don't understand where you were trying to go with your comment. If one person comments about the fact that marital rape and other forms are rape are treated differently and your response is to be wary of false accusations, I'm going to have an uncharitable reading of your comment. I'm just trying to understand what your actual intention was.
- tailius 5y agoWords need to keep their meaning. Poking a finger at someone's shoulder and calling it "rape" trivializes actual rape. There's also relative degrees of suffering and intent to commit malice. Some don't fit neatly into a particular degree of a charge and are inherently "wobblers" (felonies or misdemeanors) depending on other factors.