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>Buying and supporting local is a luxury for the rich. This is extremely myopic. The entire point of cycling-as-transit, is that, as an investment, it's by far

by scoofy 5y ago

>Buying and supporting local is a luxury for the rich. This is extremely myopic. The entire point of cycling-as-transit, is that, as an investment, it's by far the most inexpensive alternative. If you're under the assumption that you'll already have a car, or free access to transit, or live on campus, then I see your argument. However, cycling as an alternative to these things is wildly, wildly inexpensive, even factoring in bikes that cost thousands of dollars. The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually. The cost of maintaining an automobile is about $8000 annually, it's just that the costs are broken up into micropayments on things like fuel or hiding in the depreciation.

dheera 5y ago
First of all I didn't own a car. You're right that it's several thousand dollars annually and that's why I didn't own a car. > The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually That's if you fix it yourself. I spent <$100/year on maintaining my bike. Changing brake pads at a bike shop cost upwards of $60. Wheel truing, probably >$200. Attempting to buy brake pads and refusing brake pad changing service usually involved a stupid long conversation with them to convince them you didn't need service, and they would price gouge you on the brake pads. With Amazon it cost me a grand total of $8 for the new pads, shipping included, and not having to convince anyone that I'm competent at fixing my own bicycle. I once had a pedal stuck in my crank and just needed a longer wrench with more leverage to get it out. Damn bike shop wouldn't sell me the wrench. They wanted to do it themselves and charged me fucking $40 for TWO MINUTES of work. WTF. Needless to say I never visited that shop again.
- scoofy 5y ago
  Again... I don't care about how much you, or I, spend on bikes. I'm a nerd, I do most of the work myself. You seem like that too. I'm talking about cost in relation to alternatives. If the cost in relation to alternatives is low, then you can easily afford luxurious maintenance, as you'd be spending the same money, and lots more, paying for any alternative.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Just because the cost in relation to alternatives is low does not mean that you can easily afford luxurious maintenance. Some folks are poor, and spending more on x means less for y - and sometimes y is food or electricity. Heck, that last one is true even if you aren't doing luxurious maintenance.
  - dheera 5y ago
    Well yes, if the alternatives are viable. For someone on grad student income, owning a car is largely not viable, it's not even an alternative that is remotely in sight.
- spamizbad 5y ago
  Local bike shops aren't exactly rolling in dough. If you ask your local car mechanic how much they'd charge to remove a stuck bolt you'll also encounter a labor minimum that'll be a lot more than $40.
  - dheera 5y ago
    Sure, but that's not really my problem. I'm not rolling in dough either, and that's why I don't usually use local bike shops. If they want my business, they need to match what I can afford somehow.
- Aa9C4xPz43Gg7k6 5y ago
  I bought a bike last year. I've never seen anyone as unhelpful as the staff there. I even decided to start servicing more complicated parts (fork/shock) myself to avoid visiting places like this. Bay Area prices for labor are insane. Maybe I'll give wheels for truing somewhere local since it's tedious and I don't have that much time. On the other hand I've lived in places where truing wheels, servicing suspension fork and other regular servicing was really worth it. Prices were good, wait (1-2 weeks in the summer) decent and you were sure that they did a good job. No screwing around just to have the customer get wheel out of true 1-2 weeks later, they'd rather tell me to replace the spokes when needed instead of doing a crappy job. Whatever needed to be replaced (rotor, brake pads etc.) during the service was sold at online-like prices. I completely understand that plenty of local bike stores offer no value to anyone who can do basic maintenance. I hope they go bankrupt as early as possible. I'm not scared I'll run out of good bike stores. There's plenty of complicated tech that requires good technician. E-bikes and other trend also help.
- tlear 5y ago
  You are under impression that your skill in fixing things is free. Vast majority of people can not change break pads, can not understand a youtube video explaining how, can not oil a chain, can not fix a flat. Ability to problem solve and fix things is how a trade person of handyman can make very good money, as even using a stud finder and putting a screw in the wall is arcane magic to lots of people. This is tragic but this is current state of western civilization. Bring Shop back to school.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    I doubt that the vast majority of people cannot understand a youtube video explaining how, nor that the vast majority of folks cannot oil a chain. Most folks can use a stud finder and put a screw in the wall and it seems like a rather poor reading of humanity to judge people on this, especially considering how many folks live in apartments that disallow holes in the wall (and have never had a need to learn the skill).
- eythian 5y ago
  Maybe you need a better shop? A couple of weeks back I broke a couple of spokes (finally found the weight limit of a Gazelle Heavy Duty NL bike - probably about 200kg of people), they fixed the spokes, realigned the wheel, and replaced the chain for €35.

by scoofy 5y ago

dheera 5y ago

First of all I didn't own a car. You're right that it's several thousand dollars annually and that's why I didn't own a car. > The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually That's if you fix it yourself. I spent <$100/year on maintaining my bike. Changing brake pads at a bike shop cost upwards of $60. Wheel truing, probably >$200. Attempting to buy brake pads and refusing brake pad changing service usually involved a stupid long conversation with them to convince them you didn't need service, and they would price gouge you on the brake pads. With Amazon it cost me a grand total of $8 for the new pads, shipping included, and not having to convince anyone that I'm competent at fixing my own bicycle. I once had a pedal stuck in my crank and just needed a longer wrench with more leverage to get it out. Damn bike shop wouldn't sell me the wrench. They wanted to do it themselves and charged me fucking $40 for TWO MINUTES of work. WTF. Needless to say I never visited that shop again.

scoofy 5y ago
Again... I don't care about how much you, or I, spend on bikes. I'm a nerd, I do most of the work myself. You seem like that too. I'm talking about cost in relation to alternatives. If the cost in relation to alternatives is low, then you can easily afford luxurious maintenance, as you'd be spending the same money, and lots more, paying for any alternative.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Just because the cost in relation to alternatives is low does not mean that you can easily afford luxurious maintenance. Some folks are poor, and spending more on x means less for y - and sometimes y is food or electricity. Heck, that last one is true even if you aren't doing luxurious maintenance.
- dheera 5y ago
  Well yes, if the alternatives are viable. For someone on grad student income, owning a car is largely not viable, it's not even an alternative that is remotely in sight.
spamizbad 5y ago
Local bike shops aren't exactly rolling in dough. If you ask your local car mechanic how much they'd charge to remove a stuck bolt you'll also encounter a labor minimum that'll be a lot more than $40.
- dheera 5y ago
  Sure, but that's not really my problem. I'm not rolling in dough either, and that's why I don't usually use local bike shops. If they want my business, they need to match what I can afford somehow.
Aa9C4xPz43Gg7k6 5y ago
I bought a bike last year. I've never seen anyone as unhelpful as the staff there. I even decided to start servicing more complicated parts (fork/shock) myself to avoid visiting places like this. Bay Area prices for labor are insane. Maybe I'll give wheels for truing somewhere local since it's tedious and I don't have that much time. On the other hand I've lived in places where truing wheels, servicing suspension fork and other regular servicing was really worth it. Prices were good, wait (1-2 weeks in the summer) decent and you were sure that they did a good job. No screwing around just to have the customer get wheel out of true 1-2 weeks later, they'd rather tell me to replace the spokes when needed instead of doing a crappy job. Whatever needed to be replaced (rotor, brake pads etc.) during the service was sold at online-like prices. I completely understand that plenty of local bike stores offer no value to anyone who can do basic maintenance. I hope they go bankrupt as early as possible. I'm not scared I'll run out of good bike stores. There's plenty of complicated tech that requires good technician. E-bikes and other trend also help.
tlear 5y ago
You are under impression that your skill in fixing things is free. Vast majority of people can not change break pads, can not understand a youtube video explaining how, can not oil a chain, can not fix a flat. Ability to problem solve and fix things is how a trade person of handyman can make very good money, as even using a stud finder and putting a screw in the wall is arcane magic to lots of people. This is tragic but this is current state of western civilization. Bring Shop back to school.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I doubt that the vast majority of people cannot understand a youtube video explaining how, nor that the vast majority of folks cannot oil a chain. Most folks can use a stud finder and put a screw in the wall and it seems like a rather poor reading of humanity to judge people on this, especially considering how many folks live in apartments that disallow holes in the wall (and have never had a need to learn the skill).
eythian 5y ago
Maybe you need a better shop? A couple of weeks back I broke a couple of spokes (finally found the weight limit of a Gazelle Heavy Duty NL bike - probably about 200kg of people), they fixed the spokes, realigned the wheel, and replaced the chain for €35.