6 ms·

Here's the other side of the story. For a long time I was a student (yes, I did a PhD). I didn't have the cash for local bike shops. Buying and supporting loc

by dheera 5y ago

Here's the other side of the story. For a long time I was a student (yes, I did a PhD). I didn't have the cash for local bike shops. Buying and supporting local is a luxury for the rich. I could not afford the $600 bikes they were selling. I bought $150 used bikes on Craigslist and repaired them myself. And no, not with parts from the bike shop. I could get the same parts at half price online, including from Amazon. Usually I could tune up a $150 bike for another $25 in parts and that's a lot cheaper than $600. If local bike shops want my business, and pretty much the business of students in general, they need to get with the beat and be cheaper than Amazon. Oh btw -- last week I changed my bike pedals for one that I got on Amazon for $20. I have never seen a bike shop sell such good pedals at this price point. I have never even seen a bike shop sell this brand ("ROCKBROS"). They usually sell some super expensive brand like Shimano only. They also seem to have politics against selling competing brands sometimes, and Amazon has none of that bullcrap, you see all the brands and you buy the best.

JCharante 5y ago
The problem is that there's two types of people who ride bikes. Commuters who want to spend less than $200 on just something to get them moving, parents riding with their kids are also here. Cyclists who spent 10-20-40 hours per week on a bike. For a hobby that you spend 60hr/mo on it's reasonable to spend $1300 on an entry level road bike and much more as you progress. Especially because it's good for your health. Obviously there's money to be made with cyclists, but commuters would be so cheap and budget concerned that there's no money to be made from it. Amazon is perfect because you're not looking for quality. I use a rockbros sweat catcher for my indoor training bike setup and it's great because it's just fabric. You want LBS to stock $20 pedals? Who is going to buy them? What would the margins on that be? I wouldn't trust $20 clipless pedals (because if they fail you will get hurt/injured) and if they're flat pedals then bmx people would buy flat, but they're going to be so heavy that it'll be bad performance wise. There's only broke students who would buy it, and at that point just get it from Amazon.
- walshemj 5y ago
  I am looking at a bike for commuting and as this will be multimodal - that means a Brompton which is well over £1200. Oh and trying to find one in stock is a nightmare in the UK most be even worse else where.
  - dheera 5y ago
    If you're looking for cheaper, look into Dahon bikes, they're decent value and much cheaper. Especially if you can get a used one that has been kept well, you can often get it for less than half of the MSRP.
    - walshemj 5y ago
      Heavier unfortuetly and bigger
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - de_keyboard 5y ago
    Expensive but worth it. Brompton designs are far better than the alternatives. They hold their value pretty well too, if it turns out you don't like it.
- dheera 5y ago
  So ... I spend a lot of time on a bike. I don't spend $1300 on bikes. There are people who want the latest carbon fiber blah blah just because they are using it for sport. I have no problem with them. But I have my current $200 Craigslist bike, it would have been $900 MSRP, but it rides fine, it's a little heavier than those carbon fiber things but so what? I get more exercise, and worry slightly less about theft, which buys me a LOT of freedom because I can just lock it up in downtown San Francisco and enjoy my day. If it gets stolen I just buy another bike, no biggie. If my landlord confiscates it, I just buy another bike, no biggie.* Yeah, I agree, it's reasonable to spend $1300. If you have $1300. But it's also okay to NOT want to spend $1300 and still want to take it up as a serious hobby. I for one am pretty happy with my $200 bike. I don't use clip pedals, I just use flat pedals, and these $20 aluminum flat pedals are nice and solid. I tried SPD clips before and hated that stuff. To each is own. I have done many long distance trips, and I avoid proprietary or hard-to-find components because it's awesome that I can find replacement components in some random village in rural China or rural Myanmar or rural anywhere I go. *Saves me on rent anyway because apartments in my area with proper bike storage OR enough apartment sqftage to store bikes inside have rent rates higher than my current rent plus the cost of a new bike per month. It still saves me money to stay at my current cheap apartment, lock bike to the pool fence (because property manager refuses to install bike racks on the premises), get it confiscated every now and then, and keep buying new bikes.
zwieback 5y ago
Agreed. Bike shop business models are problematic and it's worth shopping around. My local shops sell a lot of stuff at reasonable prices and we have 4 shops in walking distance of each other so there's some competition but at times it feels like being ripped off. And it feels worse being ripped off by your neighbor somehow. When that happens I don't feel bad about getting stuff from nashbar or similar. Pedals are a good example, ridiculously overpriced at the shops. Luckily we have a non-profit called "The Bike Collective" that strips donated bikes and sells parts super cheap, they also help with repairs.
scoofy 5y ago
>Buying and supporting local is a luxury for the rich. This is extremely myopic. The entire point of cycling-as-transit, is that, as an investment, it's by far the most inexpensive alternative. If you're under the assumption that you'll already have a car, or free access to transit, or live on campus, then I see your argument. However, cycling as an alternative to these things is wildly, wildly inexpensive, even factoring in bikes that cost thousands of dollars. The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually. The cost of maintaining an automobile is about $8000 annually, it's just that the costs are broken up into micropayments on things like fuel or hiding in the depreciation.
- dheera 5y ago
  First of all I didn't own a car. You're right that it's several thousand dollars annually and that's why I didn't own a car. > The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually That's if you fix it yourself. I spent <$100/year on maintaining my bike. Changing brake pads at a bike shop cost upwards of $60. Wheel truing, probably >$200. Attempting to buy brake pads and refusing brake pad changing service usually involved a stupid long conversation with them to convince them you didn't need service, and they would price gouge you on the brake pads. With Amazon it cost me a grand total of $8 for the new pads, shipping included, and not having to convince anyone that I'm competent at fixing my own bicycle. I once had a pedal stuck in my crank and just needed a longer wrench with more leverage to get it out. Damn bike shop wouldn't sell me the wrench. They wanted to do it themselves and charged me fucking $40 for TWO MINUTES of work. WTF. Needless to say I never visited that shop again.
  - scoofy 5y ago
    Again... I don't care about how much you, or I, spend on bikes. I'm a nerd, I do most of the work myself. You seem like that too. I'm talking about cost in relation to alternatives. If the cost in relation to alternatives is low, then you can easily afford luxurious maintenance, as you'd be spending the same money, and lots more, paying for any alternative.
    - 5y ago
jimmaswell 5y ago
Exactly. I support local businesses if they're reasonable. I get that rent and everything can add a bit to the cost. But if they're just greedy scam artists asking 2-3x the price you can get online for everything, expecting your charity just for being local, then I won't shed a tear when they go bankrupt.
stefan_ 5y ago
If it's got very fancy colors it's a shitty plastic throwaway product. Shimano pedals are not fancy but they are cheap for what they are and built to survive a nuclear war.
- dheera 5y ago
  It has fancy colors and made of anodized aluminum. There is zero plastic in it.
  - DC-3 5y ago
    Looks like you've gotten a good product for your use case. But flat pedals like that are generally intended for mountain bikes and I bet I know which of those two products is more likely to shatter into pieces if it glances off a rock.
aix1 5y ago
> I have never even seen a bike shop sell this brand ("ROCKBROS"). RockBros is a Chinese brand. I have a few of their parts and in my experience they're pretty well made.

by dheera 5y ago

JCharante 5y ago

The problem is that there's two types of people who ride bikes. Commuters who want to spend less than $200 on just something to get them moving, parents riding with their kids are also here. Cyclists who spent 10-20-40 hours per week on a bike. For a hobby that you spend 60hr/mo on it's reasonable to spend $1300 on an entry level road bike and much more as you progress. Especially because it's good for your health. Obviously there's money to be made with cyclists, but commuters would be so cheap and budget concerned that there's no money to be made from it. Amazon is perfect because you're not looking for quality. I use a rockbros sweat catcher for my indoor training bike setup and it's great because it's just fabric. You want LBS to stock $20 pedals? Who is going to buy them? What would the margins on that be? I wouldn't trust $20 clipless pedals (because if they fail you will get hurt/injured) and if they're flat pedals then bmx people would buy flat, but they're going to be so heavy that it'll be bad performance wise. There's only broke students who would buy it, and at that point just get it from Amazon.

walshemj 5y ago
I am looking at a bike for commuting and as this will be multimodal - that means a Brompton which is well over £1200. Oh and trying to find one in stock is a nightmare in the UK most be even worse else where.
- dheera 5y ago
  If you're looking for cheaper, look into Dahon bikes, they're decent value and much cheaper. Especially if you can get a used one that has been kept well, you can often get it for less than half of the MSRP.
  - walshemj 5y ago
    Heavier unfortuetly and bigger
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- de_keyboard 5y ago
  Expensive but worth it. Brompton designs are far better than the alternatives. They hold their value pretty well too, if it turns out you don't like it.
dheera 5y ago
So ... I spend a lot of time on a bike. I don't spend $1300 on bikes. There are people who want the latest carbon fiber blah blah just because they are using it for sport. I have no problem with them. But I have my current $200 Craigslist bike, it would have been $900 MSRP, but it rides fine, it's a little heavier than those carbon fiber things but so what? I get more exercise, and worry slightly less about theft, which buys me a LOT of freedom because I can just lock it up in downtown San Francisco and enjoy my day. If it gets stolen I just buy another bike, no biggie. If my landlord confiscates it, I just buy another bike, no biggie.* Yeah, I agree, it's reasonable to spend $1300. If you have $1300. But it's also okay to NOT want to spend $1300 and still want to take it up as a serious hobby. I for one am pretty happy with my $200 bike. I don't use clip pedals, I just use flat pedals, and these $20 aluminum flat pedals are nice and solid. I tried SPD clips before and hated that stuff. To each is own. I have done many long distance trips, and I avoid proprietary or hard-to-find components because it's awesome that I can find replacement components in some random village in rural China or rural Myanmar or rural anywhere I go. *Saves me on rent anyway because apartments in my area with proper bike storage OR enough apartment sqftage to store bikes inside have rent rates higher than my current rent plus the cost of a new bike per month. It still saves me money to stay at my current cheap apartment, lock bike to the pool fence (because property manager refuses to install bike racks on the premises), get it confiscated every now and then, and keep buying new bikes.

zwieback 5y ago

Agreed. Bike shop business models are problematic and it's worth shopping around. My local shops sell a lot of stuff at reasonable prices and we have 4 shops in walking distance of each other so there's some competition but at times it feels like being ripped off. And it feels worse being ripped off by your neighbor somehow. When that happens I don't feel bad about getting stuff from nashbar or similar. Pedals are a good example, ridiculously overpriced at the shops. Luckily we have a non-profit called "The Bike Collective" that strips donated bikes and sells parts super cheap, they also help with repairs.

scoofy 5y ago

>Buying and supporting local is a luxury for the rich. This is extremely myopic. The entire point of cycling-as-transit, is that, as an investment, it's by far the most inexpensive alternative. If you're under the assumption that you'll already have a car, or free access to transit, or live on campus, then I see your argument. However, cycling as an alternative to these things is wildly, wildly inexpensive, even factoring in bikes that cost thousands of dollars. The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually. The cost of maintaining an automobile is about $8000 annually, it's just that the costs are broken up into micropayments on things like fuel or hiding in the depreciation.

dheera 5y ago
First of all I didn't own a car. You're right that it's several thousand dollars annually and that's why I didn't own a car. > The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually That's if you fix it yourself. I spent <$100/year on maintaining my bike. Changing brake pads at a bike shop cost upwards of $60. Wheel truing, probably >$200. Attempting to buy brake pads and refusing brake pad changing service usually involved a stupid long conversation with them to convince them you didn't need service, and they would price gouge you on the brake pads. With Amazon it cost me a grand total of $8 for the new pads, shipping included, and not having to convince anyone that I'm competent at fixing my own bicycle. I once had a pedal stuck in my crank and just needed a longer wrench with more leverage to get it out. Damn bike shop wouldn't sell me the wrench. They wanted to do it themselves and charged me fucking $40 for TWO MINUTES of work. WTF. Needless to say I never visited that shop again.
- scoofy 5y ago
  Again... I don't care about how much you, or I, spend on bikes. I'm a nerd, I do most of the work myself. You seem like that too. I'm talking about cost in relation to alternatives. If the cost in relation to alternatives is low, then you can easily afford luxurious maintenance, as you'd be spending the same money, and lots more, paying for any alternative.
  - 5y ago

jimmaswell 5y ago

Exactly. I support local businesses if they're reasonable. I get that rent and everything can add a bit to the cost. But if they're just greedy scam artists asking 2-3x the price you can get online for everything, expecting your charity just for being local, then I won't shed a tear when they go bankrupt.

stefan_ 5y ago

If it's got very fancy colors it's a shitty plastic throwaway product. Shimano pedals are not fancy but they are cheap for what they are and built to survive a nuclear war.

dheera 5y ago
It has fancy colors and made of anodized aluminum. There is zero plastic in it.
- DC-3 5y ago
  Looks like you've gotten a good product for your use case. But flat pedals like that are generally intended for mountain bikes and I bet I know which of those two products is more likely to shatter into pieces if it glances off a rock.

aix1 5y ago

> I have never even seen a bike shop sell this brand ("ROCKBROS"). RockBros is a Chinese brand. I have a few of their parts and in my experience they're pretty well made.