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The default policy should be a normal non-masked school year. People pushing masks need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence that masks work and are worth all

The default policy should be a normal non-masked school year. People pushing masks need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence that masks work and are worth all the negative effects they might have on kids. In addition they need a clearly defined exit strategy. They should also articulate what problem masks on kids are trying to solve.

ceejayoz 5y ago
People claiming "all the negative effects they might have on kids" "need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence" of that.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  That isn’t how this works. It isn’t my job to provide that evidence. Y’all want to force my 4 year old to wear a mask at her preschool. Prove it is necessary and won’t cause long term development issues. It isn’t my job to prove it isn't necessary. I’m the one that needs to be convinced, not the other way around. Y’all are the ones trying to force this, not me.
  - IX-103 5y ago
    How full is your local pediatric ICU? https://www.google.com/search?q=pediatric+icu+beds https://www.google.com/search?q=pediatric+icu+beds If it's full then risking developmental issues for your child should probably be a less important to you than risking a highly contagious illness with the complications that entails (complications include death, permanent cognitive, neurological, respiratory and cardiovascular damage). Ideally every responsible* parent could choose how they want to manage the risk for their child, but that's not always practical. With limited daycare and schooling facilities, there's a strong push to follow the more ~conservative~ (cautious) approaches. And this is at it should be. As they say "Your freedom to swing your arm ends at my face", so to should your freedom to choose the level of risk you are comfortable with be limited by the freedom for others to choose their level of risk. *A responsible parent considers the welfare of the child first and foremost, not using children as tools to make points or demonstrate a commitment to a particular ideology or to otherwise serve their own interests.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      Hospitals aren't full. ICU's will never fill up with kids having covid. It just won't happen. Kids aren't at risk. We have more than a year and a half of data to support this. > A responsible parent considers the welfare of the child first and foremost, not using children as tools to make points or demonstrate a commitment to a particular ideology or to otherwise serve their own interests. Correct. And I'd argue almost everybody in favor of forcing kids to wear masks at school forgot this.
      - sn9 5y ago
        > Hospitals aren't full. ICU's will never fill up with kids having covid. It just won't happen. It already has. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/dallas-county-no-pediatric-icu-beds-left/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/dallas-county-no-pediatric...
      - Jansemon 5y ago
        > Kids aren't at risk. Well, the Delta variant seems to be changing that.
- chlodwig 5y ago
  Depriving kids of seeing facial expressions, depriving kids of seeing the smiles on the faces of their friends and teachers, for an entire year (or more?), during most of their socialization hours, is in and of itself a direct and terrible harm. It's one thing to require masks in the grocery store and at the doctor's office just to be on the safe side. Not much harm in that. But all-day, every day at school, a place which is the primary place to make friends, and not being able to see friend's smile? That is a horrible thing. If covid was actually so dangerous that we needed to worry about kids dying, then the proper response would be shutting down the schools entirely. If it is not dangerous, then we should allow kids to attend mask free and have an actually fully human experience.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    If covid was so dangerous to children that they were dying all over the place, they’d have been first in line for vaccines way back in December. Also it sickens me that people downvote your valid concerns. Kids need facial expressions. They need to hear and see each other to learn. I don’t know why that is so controversial.
    - navjack27 5y ago
      That isn't how this works. Yes, the emergency order for vaccines is generally for the higher risk population. But using a not very broadly tested vaccine that was given an emergency order first in kids doesn't seem like a good idea I guess. Covid is extremely dangerous in kids. Long covid in kids isn't something I would ever want to expose my kids to if I had kids. If I had kids I would want them to wear a mask. I don't want to get covid from them if they happen to be a vector. I don't want them to develop a full-blown case. I don't want them to get it and then infect their mother or their friends or me or their teacher. I don't want anyone to get covid. I've been reading all of your replies and you are an very emotional parent and I respect that and I understand that. Kids might need facial expressions but kids 100% do need to be healthy and they aren't as resilient as you have said. Okay, so your child gets covid isn't vaccinated and you end up finding out when they are in their mid-20s that they are developing some sort of a brain disorder that was brought on by long covid that we are completely unaware of because we don't know what's going to happen with this. This is what's wrong with a lot of these short-sighted arguments is that... I might be afraid of covid and I might want zero covid but that is because I have the imagination to envision what could end up happening. and it's not far fetched it's not fear tactics it's not gaslighting. While we know that kids need certain things for their developing brains, positive stimulus visual things and all of that... I don't know how you're not more afraid or more concerned about the unknowns about this virus. Now I'm going to get a little opinionated here and it might be a little jab and I apologize for being rude... Are you sure that your actually not just worked up about this because you have a job you need your kids to go someplace during the day you're stressed about other parts of your life just crap like that? Like for me personally, I'm disabled I stay at home all day I go out maybe once a week to get groceries and I double mask and I've been vaccinated since April 20th with Pfizer. Before this pandemic I didn't go anywhere. I might be a little bit maladjusted but I'm not going to be rolling the dice on a virus that could potentially affect me my entire life when the life that I'm already living right now already has problems and I don't need people who are all "think of the children" acting short-sighted about all of this and putting people like me at risk putting people at risk putting themselves at risk. I wish people would take this more seriously. Yeah we could have an entire year or two of no social encounters or deprived extroverts but think long-term on how we could have a whole slice of humanity that's getting this virus that is basically just messing up how their DNA is going to unfold how all of their proteins are going to unfold basically turning into a whole new research sector. We have all of the knowledge and the ways to avoid all of this but we have people that just give up and accept that oh we're all going to get it so just buck up old chap.
- shadilay 5y ago
  CO2 is pretty horrible for cognition. https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2016/07/indoor-co2-dumb-and-dumber/ https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2016/07/indoor-co2-dumb-a...
Retric 5y ago
“masks need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence” vs “all the negative effects they might have on kids” Those are some wildly different standards. You can convince yourself of anything if you assume it’s correct and raise the bar high enough for counter evidence.
op00to 5y ago
Please list the negative effects. Should be easy since there are so many.
- chlodwig 5y ago
  Not being able to see the facial expressions and smiles of their friends and teachers.
  - op00to 5y ago
    Ok, anything actually harmful?

ceejayoz 5y ago

People claiming "all the negative effects they might have on kids" "need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence" of that.

spookthesunset 5y ago
That isn’t how this works. It isn’t my job to provide that evidence. Y’all want to force my 4 year old to wear a mask at her preschool. Prove it is necessary and won’t cause long term development issues. It isn’t my job to prove it isn't necessary. I’m the one that needs to be convinced, not the other way around. Y’all are the ones trying to force this, not me.
- IX-103 5y ago
  How full is your local pediatric ICU? https://www.google.com/search?q=pediatric+icu+beds https://www.google.com/search?q=pediatric+icu+beds If it's full then risking developmental issues for your child should probably be a less important to you than risking a highly contagious illness with the complications that entails (complications include death, permanent cognitive, neurological, respiratory and cardiovascular damage). Ideally every responsible* parent could choose how they want to manage the risk for their child, but that's not always practical. With limited daycare and schooling facilities, there's a strong push to follow the more ~conservative~ (cautious) approaches. And this is at it should be. As they say "Your freedom to swing your arm ends at my face", so to should your freedom to choose the level of risk you are comfortable with be limited by the freedom for others to choose their level of risk. *A responsible parent considers the welfare of the child first and foremost, not using children as tools to make points or demonstrate a commitment to a particular ideology or to otherwise serve their own interests.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    Hospitals aren't full. ICU's will never fill up with kids having covid. It just won't happen. Kids aren't at risk. We have more than a year and a half of data to support this. > A responsible parent considers the welfare of the child first and foremost, not using children as tools to make points or demonstrate a commitment to a particular ideology or to otherwise serve their own interests. Correct. And I'd argue almost everybody in favor of forcing kids to wear masks at school forgot this.
    - sn9 5y ago
      > Hospitals aren't full. ICU's will never fill up with kids having covid. It just won't happen. It already has. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/dallas-county-no-pediatric-icu-beds-left/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/dallas-county-no-pediatric...
    - Jansemon 5y ago
      > Kids aren't at risk. Well, the Delta variant seems to be changing that.
chlodwig 5y ago
Depriving kids of seeing facial expressions, depriving kids of seeing the smiles on the faces of their friends and teachers, for an entire year (or more?), during most of their socialization hours, is in and of itself a direct and terrible harm. It's one thing to require masks in the grocery store and at the doctor's office just to be on the safe side. Not much harm in that. But all-day, every day at school, a place which is the primary place to make friends, and not being able to see friend's smile? That is a horrible thing. If covid was actually so dangerous that we needed to worry about kids dying, then the proper response would be shutting down the schools entirely. If it is not dangerous, then we should allow kids to attend mask free and have an actually fully human experience.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  If covid was so dangerous to children that they were dying all over the place, they’d have been first in line for vaccines way back in December. Also it sickens me that people downvote your valid concerns. Kids need facial expressions. They need to hear and see each other to learn. I don’t know why that is so controversial.
  - navjack27 5y ago
    That isn't how this works. Yes, the emergency order for vaccines is generally for the higher risk population. But using a not very broadly tested vaccine that was given an emergency order first in kids doesn't seem like a good idea I guess. Covid is extremely dangerous in kids. Long covid in kids isn't something I would ever want to expose my kids to if I had kids. If I had kids I would want them to wear a mask. I don't want to get covid from them if they happen to be a vector. I don't want them to develop a full-blown case. I don't want them to get it and then infect their mother or their friends or me or their teacher. I don't want anyone to get covid. I've been reading all of your replies and you are an very emotional parent and I respect that and I understand that. Kids might need facial expressions but kids 100% do need to be healthy and they aren't as resilient as you have said. Okay, so your child gets covid isn't vaccinated and you end up finding out when they are in their mid-20s that they are developing some sort of a brain disorder that was brought on by long covid that we are completely unaware of because we don't know what's going to happen with this. This is what's wrong with a lot of these short-sighted arguments is that... I might be afraid of covid and I might want zero covid but that is because I have the imagination to envision what could end up happening. and it's not far fetched it's not fear tactics it's not gaslighting. While we know that kids need certain things for their developing brains, positive stimulus visual things and all of that... I don't know how you're not more afraid or more concerned about the unknowns about this virus. Now I'm going to get a little opinionated here and it might be a little jab and I apologize for being rude... Are you sure that your actually not just worked up about this because you have a job you need your kids to go someplace during the day you're stressed about other parts of your life just crap like that? Like for me personally, I'm disabled I stay at home all day I go out maybe once a week to get groceries and I double mask and I've been vaccinated since April 20th with Pfizer. Before this pandemic I didn't go anywhere. I might be a little bit maladjusted but I'm not going to be rolling the dice on a virus that could potentially affect me my entire life when the life that I'm already living right now already has problems and I don't need people who are all "think of the children" acting short-sighted about all of this and putting people like me at risk putting people at risk putting themselves at risk. I wish people would take this more seriously. Yeah we could have an entire year or two of no social encounters or deprived extroverts but think long-term on how we could have a whole slice of humanity that's getting this virus that is basically just messing up how their DNA is going to unfold how all of their proteins are going to unfold basically turning into a whole new research sector. We have all of the knowledge and the ways to avoid all of this but we have people that just give up and accept that oh we're all going to get it so just buck up old chap.
shadilay 5y ago
CO2 is pretty horrible for cognition. https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2016/07/indoor-co2-dumb-and-dumber/ https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2016/07/indoor-co2-dumb-a...

Retric 5y ago

“masks need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence” vs “all the negative effects they might have on kids” Those are some wildly different standards. You can convince yourself of anything if you assume it’s correct and raise the bar high enough for counter evidence.

op00to 5y ago

Please list the negative effects. Should be easy since there are so many.

chlodwig 5y ago
Not being able to see the facial expressions and smiles of their friends and teachers.
- op00to 5y ago
  Ok, anything actually harmful?