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39% effective against infection, but the big sticking point is that it "Largely prevents severe illness"...ie keeping people out of the hospital. That is the c

39% effective against infection, but the big sticking point is that it "Largely prevents severe illness"...ie keeping people out of the hospital. That is the crucial need right now with the delta spread.

jefft255 5y ago
My understanding is that it's pretty clear that vaccine do not do a good job at preventing infection (i.e. testing positive and/or having cold-like symptoms), Delta or not. I don't think they were ever advertised as such.
- selykg 5y ago
  > I don't think they were ever advertised as such. Correct based on my understanding. But sadly I see people quoting all the time (on social media) that it prevents infection. So there's probably a fair bit of misconception out there
- HWR_14 5y ago
  The mRNA vaccines were very good at preventing any infection, between 80% and 95% effective depending on variant and study. J&J was between 65 and 80% depending on the variant and study. All of them have been excellent at preventing hospitalization and death. And they definitely were advertised as helping to prevent the spread. That's the whole "herd immunity" thing. After all, one goal is to prevent the epidemic from hitting the unvaccinated.
  - rmdashrfstar 5y ago
    Vaccines does not _prevent_ infection. Vaccines prevent _diseases_ that can be dangerous, or even deadly. Vaccines greatly reduce the _risk_ of infection by working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      You're speaking nonsense. If you mean the vaccine doesn't prevent a virus particle from going into your body, you are correct. They aid the immune system in fighting the virus once it's inside. "Infection" is usually used when some boundary of viral load is crossed, a boundary almost impossible to reach through any means other than internal incubation. Hence, vaccines prevent infection.
- JshWright 5y ago
  That depends on what you mean by "good job". It's certainly better at preventing sever illness than it is at preventing infection altogether, but it's still quite good at that (better than the typical flu vaccine, for instance).
- j_walter 5y ago
  Politicians certainly didn't deliver a great message about it though...when they are the ones that are giving out 99% of the information about the vaccine (since I don't think the drug companies can advertise a non-approved drug). Many vaccines are meant to prevent infection, but this type is meant to mostly reduce the chance of severe infection by training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it with less "training".
  - dmwallin 5y ago
    >>> training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it with less "training" This is literally how every vaccine ever made works.
    - j_walter 5y ago
      Yes, but some are better at never getting infected in the first place, like chicken pox, hepatitis or measles.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tmaly 5y ago
  it is my understanding that mRNA technology makes it easier to create vaccines. Why can we just do a version 2 that does work better against delta?
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    Probably because this version is doing well enough?
71a54xd 5y ago
This is the media "grift" I absolutely can't believe. The vaccine IS preventing people from dying and it's largely known that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection or spread. That said, GET THE VACCINE, I do not intend for this to sound like I'm condoning any kind of anti-vax narrative! Political fluff is expected, but keeping millions of people afraid and irate about information that deeply pertains to both their physical and mental health for what gain?
- kindatrue 5y ago
  >for what gain Those clicks!
  - 71a54xd 5y ago
    Obviously! But at what point will educated people (regardless of their political views) realize that playing fast and loose with this kind of media is damaging to everyone and their wellbeing?
HWR_14 5y ago
The 39% is against getting an infection, and I believe that includes the ability to transmit the infection on. It definitely is crucial that Re (R0 modified by measures like vaccines and masks) be kept below 1 if at all possible. The preventing severe illness is still holding pretty firm, but not as strong as against other variants. Still a very good chance. And preventing hospitalizations is even stronger.
- j_walter 5y ago
  I haven't seen any good information on transmission. My gut feeling is that less symptoms == less transmissibility, but I have no data to back that up. One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox.
  - breadzeppelin__ 5y ago
    > less symptoms == less transmissibility doesn't really hold up when asymptomatic spread (no symptoms at all) has been one of the main concerns for the entire pandemic
    - j_walter 5y ago
      Sure, but everything also said its spread through the air...no coughing == less droplets. The spread concern would be if people aren't taking the same precautions because they aren't showing symptoms, but if still wearing masks or social distancing then the transmission should be less. That being said most people aren't taking precautions any more because of this...I've seen people directly exposed for up to 2 days to someone with COVID w/ symptoms who then gets an immediate negative test and goes on with their life and not wearing masks in public/work. No amount of yelling or shaming does any good when people are oblivious to their own self destructive behavior.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      It’s important to distinguish between asymptomatic infection and presymptomatic infection. The biggest problem with COVID-19 compared to previous forms of SARS viruses is its ability to spread before the onset of symptoms, which is different from someone displaying no symptoms at all from infection. I’m not completely sure how infectious an asymptomatic infection is, but i just wanted to note a lot of the concern has actually been about presymptomatic infection.
senectus1 5y ago
39% against infection is bloody good. I'll take that (actually i already have)

jefft255 5y ago

My understanding is that it's pretty clear that vaccine do not do a good job at preventing infection (i.e. testing positive and/or having cold-like symptoms), Delta or not. I don't think they were ever advertised as such.

selykg 5y ago
> I don't think they were ever advertised as such. Correct based on my understanding. But sadly I see people quoting all the time (on social media) that it prevents infection. So there's probably a fair bit of misconception out there
HWR_14 5y ago
The mRNA vaccines were very good at preventing any infection, between 80% and 95% effective depending on variant and study. J&J was between 65 and 80% depending on the variant and study. All of them have been excellent at preventing hospitalization and death. And they definitely were advertised as helping to prevent the spread. That's the whole "herd immunity" thing. After all, one goal is to prevent the epidemic from hitting the unvaccinated.
- rmdashrfstar 5y ago
  Vaccines does not _prevent_ infection. Vaccines prevent _diseases_ that can be dangerous, or even deadly. Vaccines greatly reduce the _risk_ of infection by working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    You're speaking nonsense. If you mean the vaccine doesn't prevent a virus particle from going into your body, you are correct. They aid the immune system in fighting the virus once it's inside. "Infection" is usually used when some boundary of viral load is crossed, a boundary almost impossible to reach through any means other than internal incubation. Hence, vaccines prevent infection.
JshWright 5y ago
That depends on what you mean by "good job". It's certainly better at preventing sever illness than it is at preventing infection altogether, but it's still quite good at that (better than the typical flu vaccine, for instance).
j_walter 5y ago
Politicians certainly didn't deliver a great message about it though...when they are the ones that are giving out 99% of the information about the vaccine (since I don't think the drug companies can advertise a non-approved drug). Many vaccines are meant to prevent infection, but this type is meant to mostly reduce the chance of severe infection by training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it with less "training".
- dmwallin 5y ago
  >>> training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it with less "training" This is literally how every vaccine ever made works.
  - j_walter 5y ago
    Yes, but some are better at never getting infected in the first place, like chicken pox, hepatitis or measles.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tmaly 5y ago
it is my understanding that mRNA technology makes it easier to create vaccines. Why can we just do a version 2 that does work better against delta?
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Probably because this version is doing well enough?

71a54xd 5y ago

This is the media "grift" I absolutely can't believe. The vaccine IS preventing people from dying and it's largely known that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection or spread. That said, GET THE VACCINE, I do not intend for this to sound like I'm condoning any kind of anti-vax narrative! Political fluff is expected, but keeping millions of people afraid and irate about information that deeply pertains to both their physical and mental health for what gain?

kindatrue 5y ago
>for what gain Those clicks!
- 71a54xd 5y ago
  Obviously! But at what point will educated people (regardless of their political views) realize that playing fast and loose with this kind of media is damaging to everyone and their wellbeing?

HWR_14 5y ago

The 39% is against getting an infection, and I believe that includes the ability to transmit the infection on. It definitely is crucial that Re (R0 modified by measures like vaccines and masks) be kept below 1 if at all possible. The preventing severe illness is still holding pretty firm, but not as strong as against other variants. Still a very good chance. And preventing hospitalizations is even stronger.

j_walter 5y ago
I haven't seen any good information on transmission. My gut feeling is that less symptoms == less transmissibility, but I have no data to back that up. One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox.
- breadzeppelin__ 5y ago
  > less symptoms == less transmissibility doesn't really hold up when asymptomatic spread (no symptoms at all) has been one of the main concerns for the entire pandemic
  - j_walter 5y ago
    Sure, but everything also said its spread through the air...no coughing == less droplets. The spread concern would be if people aren't taking the same precautions because they aren't showing symptoms, but if still wearing masks or social distancing then the transmission should be less. That being said most people aren't taking precautions any more because of this...I've seen people directly exposed for up to 2 days to someone with COVID w/ symptoms who then gets an immediate negative test and goes on with their life and not wearing masks in public/work. No amount of yelling or shaming does any good when people are oblivious to their own self destructive behavior.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    It’s important to distinguish between asymptomatic infection and presymptomatic infection. The biggest problem with COVID-19 compared to previous forms of SARS viruses is its ability to spread before the onset of symptoms, which is different from someone displaying no symptoms at all from infection. I’m not completely sure how infectious an asymptomatic infection is, but i just wanted to note a lot of the concern has actually been about presymptomatic infection.

senectus1 5y ago

39% against infection is bloody good. I'll take that (actually i already have)