4 ms·

Is every hospital getting overwhelmed though? I keep seeing reports of staff getting fired or quitting because of vaccine requirement. Maybe I'm getting fake

by dham 5y ago

Is every hospital getting overwhelmed though? I keep seeing reports of staff getting fired or quitting because of vaccine requirement. Maybe I'm getting fake news?

bingohbangoh 5y ago
I'll throw in a anecdote: my family in nearby hospitals are *not* being mandated to get vaccinated. This is precisely because there is high demand for registered nurses and other medical staff at the moment.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  > This is precisely because there is high demand Ok. At least somebody can exercise reason when necessary. By the way (I believe that's is nonsensical but I also believe I am probably wrong - I am far from an expert), what's the point of force-vaccinating people who have obviously contacted the infection on many occasions and still are Okay? To me this indicates their immune systems are doing a great job and we should rather avoid teaching them (their perfectly competent immune systems) how they should do it. And I don't know about any evidence of vaccinated people being less contagious than those naturally immune.
  - bingohbangoh 5y ago
    > what's the point of force-vaccinating people who have obviously contacted the infection on many occasions and still are Okay? I don't know but, fwiw, Europe is considering prior infection proven by an antibody test as equivalent to being vaccinated.
    - qwerty456127 5y ago
      Not all Europe. Some countries governments are stubbornly against this and only accept a positive PCR test taken during the actual sickness.
  - SamBam 5y ago
    > To me this indicates their immune systems are doing a great job and we should rather avoid teaching them (their perfectly competent immune systems) how they should do it. This makes no sense from an immunological perspective, and sounds like one of those pseudoscientific ideas that "natural" immunity is somehow stronger than "vaccination" immunity. A vaccine is nothing more than exposing the immune system to the antigens. If their immune systems are already geared up to fight Covid, they will simply respond to the vaccine as another Covid infection and fight it accordingly. As for whether there is any benefit, there absolutely is. Multiple exposure events greatly increase the storage of the antibodies in the memory cells of the immune system. This is why most vaccines require at least two shots, and why the CDC is now recommending a third booster shot for some people. Plenty of studies show that the immunity of people who are vaccinated is stronger than those who were infected naturally (e.g. [1]), and that the immunity of people who have had Covid is significantly more robust after subsequent vaccination (e.g. [2], [3]). 1. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.... 2. https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-ad52011f4ca1853fad6eee41a7310c2e https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandem... ("The survivors who never got vaccinated had a significantly higher risk of reinfection than those who were fully vaccinated, even though most had their first bout of COVID-19 just six to nine months ago.") 3. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.25.21256049v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.25.21256049v...
    - logicchains 5y ago
      Yet data from Israel suggests that the vaccinated are six times more likely to get delta than people with natural immunity: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762. >This makes no sense from an immunological perspective, and sounds like one of those pseudoscientific ideas that "natural" immunity is somehow stronger than "vaccination" immunity. There's nothing unscientific about it; it's been known for a while now that some vaccines like the flu vaccine are inferior to natural immunity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870374/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870374/
      - 5y ago
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Is every hospital getting overwhelmed though? In the country? No. In large areas? Yes. > I keep seeing reports of staff getting fired or quitting because of vaccine requirement. Maybe I’m getting fake news? There are vaccine requirements being adopted some places, and there are departures related to it. But if you are seeing news suggesting that that is the major source of capacity strain (or even the major source of COVID-related causes of people departing healthcare jobs), it is, at least, distorted news.

by dham 5y ago

Is every hospital getting overwhelmed though? I keep seeing reports of staff getting fired or quitting because of vaccine requirement. Maybe I'm getting fake news?

bingohbangoh 5y ago

I'll throw in a anecdote: my family in nearby hospitals are *not* being mandated to get vaccinated. This is precisely because there is high demand for registered nurses and other medical staff at the moment.

qwerty456127 5y ago
> This is precisely because there is high demand Ok. At least somebody can exercise reason when necessary. By the way (I believe that's is nonsensical but I also believe I am probably wrong - I am far from an expert), what's the point of force-vaccinating people who have obviously contacted the infection on many occasions and still are Okay? To me this indicates their immune systems are doing a great job and we should rather avoid teaching them (their perfectly competent immune systems) how they should do it. And I don't know about any evidence of vaccinated people being less contagious than those naturally immune.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  > what's the point of force-vaccinating people who have obviously contacted the infection on many occasions and still are Okay? I don't know but, fwiw, Europe is considering prior infection proven by an antibody test as equivalent to being vaccinated.
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    Not all Europe. Some countries governments are stubbornly against this and only accept a positive PCR test taken during the actual sickness.
- SamBam 5y ago
  > To me this indicates their immune systems are doing a great job and we should rather avoid teaching them (their perfectly competent immune systems) how they should do it. This makes no sense from an immunological perspective, and sounds like one of those pseudoscientific ideas that "natural" immunity is somehow stronger than "vaccination" immunity. A vaccine is nothing more than exposing the immune system to the antigens. If their immune systems are already geared up to fight Covid, they will simply respond to the vaccine as another Covid infection and fight it accordingly. As for whether there is any benefit, there absolutely is. Multiple exposure events greatly increase the storage of the antibodies in the memory cells of the immune system. This is why most vaccines require at least two shots, and why the CDC is now recommending a third booster shot for some people. Plenty of studies show that the immunity of people who are vaccinated is stronger than those who were infected naturally (e.g. [1]), and that the immunity of people who have had Covid is significantly more robust after subsequent vaccination (e.g. [2], [3]). 1. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.... 2. https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-ad52011f4ca1853fad6eee41a7310c2e https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandem... ("The survivors who never got vaccinated had a significantly higher risk of reinfection than those who were fully vaccinated, even though most had their first bout of COVID-19 just six to nine months ago.") 3. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.25.21256049v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.25.21256049v...
  - logicchains 5y ago
    Yet data from Israel suggests that the vaccinated are six times more likely to get delta than people with natural immunity: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762. >This makes no sense from an immunological perspective, and sounds like one of those pseudoscientific ideas that "natural" immunity is somehow stronger than "vaccination" immunity. There's nothing unscientific about it; it's been known for a while now that some vaccines like the flu vaccine are inferior to natural immunity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870374/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870374/
    - 5y ago

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Is every hospital getting overwhelmed though? In the country? No. In large areas? Yes. > I keep seeing reports of staff getting fired or quitting because of vaccine requirement. Maybe I’m getting fake news? There are vaccine requirements being adopted some places, and there are departures related to it. But if you are seeing news suggesting that that is the major source of capacity strain (or even the major source of COVID-related causes of people departing healthcare jobs), it is, at least, distorted news.