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Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" Public schools, colleges, and the military have been req

Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" Public schools, colleges, and the military have been requiring vaccines for decades. >It ends up feeling less like the decisions are guided by science and more like they’re guided by petty tyrants wanting to control what others do. This sounds like a result of reading about what health care and government officials are saying instead of actually reading what they are saying.

niij 5y ago
> Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" "The voluntary phase is over" - Bill de Blasio https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/03/new-york-city-mayor-bill-de-blasio-and-governor-andrew-cuomo-are-pushing-hard-for-vaccinations-to-make-the-big-apple-safer/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/03/new-york-c...
- enragedcacti 5y ago
  For more context of that quote: > The Mayor will also be initiating a “Key to NYC Pass,” which is like the Covid-19 passport talked about a few months ago. It's a carrot-and-stick approach, as people will be required to show that they are vaccinated if they want to go to restaurants, gyms and other events. No vaccinations, no entrance. “If you want to participate in society fully, you’ve got to get vaccinated,” de Blasio proclaimed. “If we’re going to stop the Delta variant, the time is now,” said the mayor. “This is going to make clear, you want to enjoy everything great in this summer of New York City? Go get vaccinated.” > In an interview with MSNBC, de Blasio dialed up his frustration over the unvaccinated. “We’ve got to shake people at this point and say, ‘Come on now.’ We tried voluntary. We could not have been more kind and compassionate. Free testing, everywhere you turn, incentives, friendly, warm embrace. The voluntary phase is over,” de Blasio said last week. “It’s time for mandates, because it’s the only way to protect our people.” De Blasio is talking about restricting access to entirely optional events and locations based on vaccine status, not mandating anyone get it or else.
  - seriousquestion 5y ago
    Do you see how this escalating though? Already concerns are being blithely dismissed, and it only starts as optional and non essential. In Australia you can see the next step already where it’s being applied to grocery stores. You have to start pushing back before it gets to that.
    - glial 5y ago
      Do you? Why not just forget what the tyrannical government is saying, and do your part to protect the health of yourself and your community?
      - wait_a_minute 5y ago
        Is this tongue in cheek?
    - enragedcacti 5y ago
      so we have to push back against sensible precautions that will likely save lives because of a hypothetical future where they go too far? also, I can't find anything like what you're talking about with Australia, just more sensible precautions like this: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/31/from-social-distancing-bracelets-to-vaccine-priority-how-nsw-supermarkets-are-tackling-covid https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/31/from-social...
    - depaya 5y ago
      https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
  - yonaguska 5y ago
    > entirely optional events and locations Covid is a disease that overwhelmingly targets the obese. But you can't go to a gym. Do you consider working out an "optional" endeavor? Not only is it essential to beating covid, but, working out keeps people sane. More young people have died from increased alcohol abuse, suicide, and drug overdoses than Covid. This all coincides with the insane push to de-humanize humans. We are social creatures. We are active creatures. For the past year and a half we have been denied these human needs. What is optional to you, is essential to others. Personally, I don't care too much about losing the prospect of eating out, or hanging out in a bar. For others, especially young people seeing their entire social prospects evaporate before their eyes- this is life ending. For me, working out keeps me sane and not suicidal. I don't have the luxury of a home gym. I chose to continue working out during the pandemic, training at "secret" gyms. For my health and my sanity. All my other friends in my age group have put on weight and are more unhealthy than they've ever been. How does this help fight the pandemic?
rglover 5y ago
The Department of Homeland Security saying "opposition to COVID measures" makes someone a "potential terror threat" is about as knee-deep in Orwellian propaganda as you can get. NBC News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMCXkjaMxQ&t=778s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMCXkjaMxQ&t=778s
- learc83 5y ago
  Here's what the bulletin actually says "Through the remainder of 2021, racially- or ethnically-motivated violent extremists (RMVEs) and anti-government/anti-authority violent extremists will remain a national threat priority for the United States. These extremists may seek to exploit the emergence of COVID-19 variants by viewing the potential re-establishment of public health restrictions across the United States as a rationale to conduct attacks. Pandemic-related stressors have contributed to increased societal strains and tensions, driving several plots by domestic violent extremists, and they may contribute to more violence this year. Foreign and domestic threat actors, to include foreign intelligence services, international terrorist groups and domestic violent extremists, continue to introduce, amplify, and disseminate narratives online that promote violence, and have called for violence against elected officials, political representatives, government facilities, law enforcement, religious communities or commercial facilities, and perceived ideologically-opposed individuals. There are also continued, non-specific calls for violence on multiple online platforms associated with DVE ideologies or conspiracy theories on perceived election fraud and alleged reinstatement, and responses to anticipated restrictions relating to the increasing COVID cases." https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-august-13-2021 https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisor... Doesn't sound Orwellian to me at all.
  - rglover 5y ago
    Okay.
peteradio 5y ago
Why should a University Professor (or some benefactor) have to spend (hundreds? tens) of thousands of dollars defending their naturally derived antibodies? The result of that effort didn't even result in a University making broad exception for those with "suitably up-to-snuff immunities", they just let the one guy teach. I'm under the impression that the vast majority of mandates have exceptions for existing immunity, no?

niij 5y ago

> Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" "The voluntary phase is over" - Bill de Blasio https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/03/new-york-city-mayor-bill-de-blasio-and-governor-andrew-cuomo-are-pushing-hard-for-vaccinations-to-make-the-big-apple-safer/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/03/new-york-c...

enragedcacti 5y ago
For more context of that quote: > The Mayor will also be initiating a “Key to NYC Pass,” which is like the Covid-19 passport talked about a few months ago. It's a carrot-and-stick approach, as people will be required to show that they are vaccinated if they want to go to restaurants, gyms and other events. No vaccinations, no entrance. “If you want to participate in society fully, you’ve got to get vaccinated,” de Blasio proclaimed. “If we’re going to stop the Delta variant, the time is now,” said the mayor. “This is going to make clear, you want to enjoy everything great in this summer of New York City? Go get vaccinated.” > In an interview with MSNBC, de Blasio dialed up his frustration over the unvaccinated. “We’ve got to shake people at this point and say, ‘Come on now.’ We tried voluntary. We could not have been more kind and compassionate. Free testing, everywhere you turn, incentives, friendly, warm embrace. The voluntary phase is over,” de Blasio said last week. “It’s time for mandates, because it’s the only way to protect our people.” De Blasio is talking about restricting access to entirely optional events and locations based on vaccine status, not mandating anyone get it or else.
- seriousquestion 5y ago
  Do you see how this escalating though? Already concerns are being blithely dismissed, and it only starts as optional and non essential. In Australia you can see the next step already where it’s being applied to grocery stores. You have to start pushing back before it gets to that.
  - glial 5y ago
    Do you? Why not just forget what the tyrannical government is saying, and do your part to protect the health of yourself and your community?
    - wait_a_minute 5y ago
      Is this tongue in cheek?
  - enragedcacti 5y ago
    so we have to push back against sensible precautions that will likely save lives because of a hypothetical future where they go too far? also, I can't find anything like what you're talking about with Australia, just more sensible precautions like this: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/31/from-social-distancing-bracelets-to-vaccine-priority-how-nsw-supermarkets-are-tackling-covid https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/31/from-social...
  - depaya 5y ago
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
- yonaguska 5y ago
  > entirely optional events and locations Covid is a disease that overwhelmingly targets the obese. But you can't go to a gym. Do you consider working out an "optional" endeavor? Not only is it essential to beating covid, but, working out keeps people sane. More young people have died from increased alcohol abuse, suicide, and drug overdoses than Covid. This all coincides with the insane push to de-humanize humans. We are social creatures. We are active creatures. For the past year and a half we have been denied these human needs. What is optional to you, is essential to others. Personally, I don't care too much about losing the prospect of eating out, or hanging out in a bar. For others, especially young people seeing their entire social prospects evaporate before their eyes- this is life ending. For me, working out keeps me sane and not suicidal. I don't have the luxury of a home gym. I chose to continue working out during the pandemic, training at "secret" gyms. For my health and my sanity. All my other friends in my age group have put on weight and are more unhealthy than they've ever been. How does this help fight the pandemic?

rglover 5y ago

The Department of Homeland Security saying "opposition to COVID measures" makes someone a "potential terror threat" is about as knee-deep in Orwellian propaganda as you can get. NBC News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMCXkjaMxQ&t=778s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMCXkjaMxQ&t=778s

learc83 5y ago
Here's what the bulletin actually says "Through the remainder of 2021, racially- or ethnically-motivated violent extremists (RMVEs) and anti-government/anti-authority violent extremists will remain a national threat priority for the United States. These extremists may seek to exploit the emergence of COVID-19 variants by viewing the potential re-establishment of public health restrictions across the United States as a rationale to conduct attacks. Pandemic-related stressors have contributed to increased societal strains and tensions, driving several plots by domestic violent extremists, and they may contribute to more violence this year. Foreign and domestic threat actors, to include foreign intelligence services, international terrorist groups and domestic violent extremists, continue to introduce, amplify, and disseminate narratives online that promote violence, and have called for violence against elected officials, political representatives, government facilities, law enforcement, religious communities or commercial facilities, and perceived ideologically-opposed individuals. There are also continued, non-specific calls for violence on multiple online platforms associated with DVE ideologies or conspiracy theories on perceived election fraud and alleged reinstatement, and responses to anticipated restrictions relating to the increasing COVID cases." https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-august-13-2021 https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisor... Doesn't sound Orwellian to me at all.
- rglover 5y ago
  Okay.

peteradio 5y ago

Why should a University Professor (or some benefactor) have to spend (hundreds? tens) of thousands of dollars defending their naturally derived antibodies? The result of that effort didn't even result in a University making broad exception for those with "suitably up-to-snuff immunities", they just let the one guy teach. I'm under the impression that the vast majority of mandates have exceptions for existing immunity, no?