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No it really isn't a valid comparison and you're clearly more of an ideologue than someone interested in examining the entirety of the situation critically. If

No it really isn't a valid comparison and you're clearly more of an ideologue than someone interested in examining the entirety of the situation critically. If the vaccines are effective, then the only people at risk are those that refuse to get it. Everyone is subject to the consequences of their autonomous choice alone. The same is true for potential long term negative effects of the vaccines. Those that refuse to get it are subject to the potential long term effects of COVID, if they get it. And those that get the vaccine are guaranteed to be subject to the long term effects of having done so. Either you believe the vaccines work or you don't. The variants dominated highly vaccinated places like the UK and Israel, so don't blame the unvaccinated for bringing it about. The selective pressure applied to the virus by leaky vaccines is far greater than natural immunity.

xur17 5y ago
> If the vaccines are effective, then the only people at risk are those that refuse to get it. Everyone is subject to the consequences of their autonomous choice alone. Vaccines aren't a binary 100% or 0% effective tool, it's somewhere in the middle. If my 10 coworkers all get the vaccine, it reduces the probability of me contracting the virus, even if I got vaccinated myself. There is a communal aspect to the vaccine that you are missing here.
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  Basically every other vaccine is, that's why they're not leaky.
  - xur17 5y ago
    That is simply not true. We were able to eradicate certain illnesses historically using vaccines by getting the vast majority of the population vaccinated, reducing the rate of spread, but they are never a 100% guarantee. I suggest doing some reading on "herd immunity."
    - defaultprimate 5y ago
      It definitely is. I suggest you look up what a "perfect" vaccine is, and how they work. That's what most of the ones that have eradicated diseases are. They allow the body to completely eradicate and prevent infection and transmission. That's what leads to herd immunity. Leaky vaccines work the same way antibacterial soap did to create MRSA. They leave enough virus present to mutate to evade the mechanism originally intended to fight against it, so only the most robust mutations remain.
ryandrake 5y ago
Simplifying an efficacy percentage down to a binary "working or not" is a common disinformation tactic. When you do this, you are rounding 90% down to "doesn't work". This doesn't help the discussion. The vaccines reduce chances of death, reduce chances of severe symptoms, reduce chances spread, and reduce chances of infection. But none of them 100%. Boiling that down to "doesn't work" is kind of silly.
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  Not being obese and living a healthy lifestyle are more highly correlated with mild symptoms than vaccination status. That's why virtually all the people hospitalized or dying, vaccinated or not, have at least 1 of 4 or so of the common co-morbidities. We should all eat rationed, nutritionally complete dogfood-equivalent for humans, and have task masters that ensure we do at least 20 minutes of exercise a day. That will be more effective than the vaccine. It's for the common social good, so it's worth it.

xur17 5y ago

> If the vaccines are effective, then the only people at risk are those that refuse to get it. Everyone is subject to the consequences of their autonomous choice alone. Vaccines aren't a binary 100% or 0% effective tool, it's somewhere in the middle. If my 10 coworkers all get the vaccine, it reduces the probability of me contracting the virus, even if I got vaccinated myself. There is a communal aspect to the vaccine that you are missing here.

defaultprimate 5y ago
Basically every other vaccine is, that's why they're not leaky.
- xur17 5y ago
  That is simply not true. We were able to eradicate certain illnesses historically using vaccines by getting the vast majority of the population vaccinated, reducing the rate of spread, but they are never a 100% guarantee. I suggest doing some reading on "herd immunity."
  - defaultprimate 5y ago
    It definitely is. I suggest you look up what a "perfect" vaccine is, and how they work. That's what most of the ones that have eradicated diseases are. They allow the body to completely eradicate and prevent infection and transmission. That's what leads to herd immunity. Leaky vaccines work the same way antibacterial soap did to create MRSA. They leave enough virus present to mutate to evade the mechanism originally intended to fight against it, so only the most robust mutations remain.

ryandrake 5y ago

Simplifying an efficacy percentage down to a binary "working or not" is a common disinformation tactic. When you do this, you are rounding 90% down to "doesn't work". This doesn't help the discussion. The vaccines reduce chances of death, reduce chances of severe symptoms, reduce chances spread, and reduce chances of infection. But none of them 100%. Boiling that down to "doesn't work" is kind of silly.

defaultprimate 5y ago
Not being obese and living a healthy lifestyle are more highly correlated with mild symptoms than vaccination status. That's why virtually all the people hospitalized or dying, vaccinated or not, have at least 1 of 4 or so of the common co-morbidities. We should all eat rationed, nutritionally complete dogfood-equivalent for humans, and have task masters that ensure we do at least 20 minutes of exercise a day. That will be more effective than the vaccine. It's for the common social good, so it's worth it.