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Do you have constructive suggestions on introducing cohesive design into open ecosystems without a guiding documentation project? (disclaimer: I started this on

Do you have constructive suggestions on introducing cohesive design into open ecosystems without a guiding documentation project? (disclaimer: I started this one)

0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Firstly, to answer your question: No. There are other ecosystems that are going "fine" that have centralised, official documentation and don't require a third party to intervene and collate documentation and recommendations in an attempt to make it easier for developers. The fact this is necessary, or people feel is necessary, makes me want to avoid XMPP at all costs. That's just my very shallow surface level opinion. With all that said, i have to say; what you're doing here is commendable. I don't mean to (pardon my language) shit on something you seem to have worked very hard on. Doing something like this isn't an easy task I'm sure.
- franga2000 5y ago
  This kind of thing is pretty common with complex systems that have a very long legacy. There's a huge amount of features, many of which are very niche and most people don't even need to know about them. Official docs tend to be unopinionated and cover everything, while third parties create "guides" and similar docs for the features that matter to them. You see something similar with end-user software like Adobe's entire suite where the official docs are basically useless if you just want to learn the common operations quickly and so you have to rely on third-party books and tutorials (like the Dummies books).
- southerntofu 5y ago
  XMPP has a long history... Two decades of accumulated specifications can make it a bit overwhelming to find what you're looking for. It's important to have external individuals/collectives gathering the pieces they find important and remarks to achieve what they consider a good implementation. It's just like when you do web stuff you may read from MDN, csstricks or smashing magazine. It doesn't mean that the W3C/IETF specs are useless, far from it. But in my view it's useful to find guidance in a nebula of specifications and endless UX possibilities.

Do you have constructive suggestions on introducing cohesive design into open ecosystems without a guiding documentation project? (disclaimer: I started this one)

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

Firstly, to answer your question: No. There are other ecosystems that are going "fine" that have centralised, official documentation and don't require a third party to intervene and collate documentation and recommendations in an attempt to make it easier for developers. The fact this is necessary, or people feel is necessary, makes me want to avoid XMPP at all costs. That's just my very shallow surface level opinion. With all that said, i have to say; what you're doing here is commendable. I don't mean to (pardon my language) shit on something you seem to have worked very hard on. Doing something like this isn't an easy task I'm sure.

franga2000 5y ago
This kind of thing is pretty common with complex systems that have a very long legacy. There's a huge amount of features, many of which are very niche and most people don't even need to know about them. Official docs tend to be unopinionated and cover everything, while third parties create "guides" and similar docs for the features that matter to them. You see something similar with end-user software like Adobe's entire suite where the official docs are basically useless if you just want to learn the common operations quickly and so you have to rely on third-party books and tutorials (like the Dummies books).
southerntofu 5y ago
XMPP has a long history... Two decades of accumulated specifications can make it a bit overwhelming to find what you're looking for. It's important to have external individuals/collectives gathering the pieces they find important and remarks to achieve what they consider a good implementation. It's just like when you do web stuff you may read from MDN, csstricks or smashing magazine. It doesn't mean that the W3C/IETF specs are useless, far from it. But in my view it's useful to find guidance in a nebula of specifications and endless UX possibilities.